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Thread: Chavez's cancer has 'entered the end stage'

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    Re: Chavez's cancer has 'entered the end stage'

    So That means that Cuba and Venezuela are not better types of systems.
    Not necessarily .... A: They are 2 different systems, B: just because every governemnt chooses what are rights, doesn't mean that one doesn't have better policies than another.

    The concept is called hedging freedom.
    Yeah ... But that doesn't make it a right ... Is it a right to own a tank??? Or a fighter jet???

    The US not perfect there is alot that could be improved.
    No **** ... But my point stands.

    Restricting gun rights doesn't = dictatorship, if it did then every country is a dictatorship.

    Is Venezuela a great example of Democratic Socialism? Nope wasnt a mention of Capitalism in that question.
    You didn't understand my answer, my answer is the answer to your question is relative ...

    Both Bush and Obama have married themselves to the Patriot Act which makes them both bad presidents. But even the Patriot Act did not come with a new Constitution. Over 95% of the Venezuelan government is controlled by CHavez political party. And I do mean Chavez's political party since he is also the president of it as well of other organizations. SO Venezuela is virtually a one party system, one party system ran by a single person is a dictatorship no matter how many people vote if there are no choices or very few its not what one would call democracy.
    Its actually 48.2% (of the national assembly), you can't just make up facts because guess what ... We can look them up.

    Also just because your the president of a party doesn't mean you can do anything or have total control over it.

    Yo don't know what your talking about.

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    Re: Chavez's cancer has 'entered the end stage'

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    Not necessarily .... A: They are 2 different systems, B: just because every governemnt chooses what are rights, doesn't mean that one doesn't have better policies than another.
    That still does not make either system better.



    Y
    eah ... But that doesn't make it a right ... Is it a right to own a tank??? Or a fighter jet???
    Thats ridiculous, owning firearms does not compare to owning military vehicles.



    No **** ... But my point stands.

    Restricting gun rights doesn't = dictatorship, if it did then every country is a dictatorship.
    That is a strawman argument since I do not assert that gun ownership alone is a bases of a dictatorship.



    You didn't understand my answer, my answer is the answer to your question is relative ...
    Here is what you did: me:"A is bad example of B." you: "C sucks!" Thats great that you have an opinion on Capitalism but its of no relevance.



    Its actually 48.2% (of the national assembly), you can't just make up facts because guess what ... We can look them up.

    Also just because your the president of a party doesn't mean you can do anything or have total control over it.
    There are 165 seats in the national assembly of those 97 are filled by chavez's party. And 2 more by communists allied with Chavez. And 1 more ally. Which is a lot more than 50%. Plus the national assembly is not all of the government. Not to mention that CHavez has the military in his portfolio.

    Yo don't know what your talking about.
    Im not sure how you believe that such an fallacy will help your case.

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    Re: Chavez's cancer has 'entered the end stage'

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    There wasnt really anything else to comment on.
    Right....
    I could comment on plenty of stuff..

    The situation in the US is not identical as it is in Venezuela.
    Never said it was.

    We actually have term limits on the Presidency.
    Not until the early 50's.
    Many countries dont have term limits. I personally think term limits should be removed.

    If say the Republicans obtained an super majority they will most certainly abuse that power. And they will do so while telling us that it is good for the country. Abortion will be outlawed social programs cut and so on. And if they maintain such power then they will start with the Christian crap until all things in government will be based on religion. And the only way that would happen is with such power they were able to dictate to the rest of us. Christians are already running telling us that they are the majority and we should get in line. What they lack though is a single person in the Presidency heading their dictatorship. So instead it would be a dictatorship by the majority. None of which could happen had this country remained a party less system. But our saving grace is the judicial system and the Constitutions power.
    And riots in the streets

    Chavez on the other hand engineered his Constitution to make it easier for him to get his Bolivarian Revolution through the door and maintained.
    You do realize this new Constitution was voted on by the people?

    But the first thing that he did was to neuter the judicial system in Venezuela.
    Specifics please.


    So despite previously being voted down he was able to finally eliminate term limits.
    Voted on by the people in a national referendum again....

    And his excuse is solely based on the need for him to personally keep the Bolivarian Revolution going as if no one else can.
    Cool...
    Sounds like a president. (If you dont vote for my x, y, and z will happen)

    If he really was a man of integrity he would have only served one term of maybe two.
    In your opinion right?

    Not corrupt the system so that he can become a life long ruler.
    13 years is no where close to "life long".

    I mean why not change it to where he could serve say 6 terms or something that doesnt make him most likely to die of old age in office?
    I dont know?
    Because many people around the world and many democracies around the world, see term limits are useless.

    there is no rational reason that a single individual needs to be the president for such an indefinite amount of time.
    Sure there is.
    If the people of the country beleive this leader is doing a great job and believe and like the programs and the way the leader is handling the business of government.

    There are likely hundreds or even thousands of average citizens that could and would do a better job why deny the peoples right to rule themselves?
    In your humble opinion correct?
    Also "average citizens" in Venezuela are becoming leaders in their communities with the help of communes and workplace democracy.

    Term limits ensures that more people would get the chance to serve their country as President.
    Cool.
    That is if they win...

    IMO CHavez told the people of Venezuela that he does not trust them and therfore he must alone dictate the revolution. Its sounds a bit to egotistical.
    Got a quote on this? Or is this another one of your humble opinons?




    The part that your missing is that Hugo Chavez even if legitimately or not elected is making decisions for the country that may or may not be voted on.
    Have to be approved by the national assembly.

    The point is that the Bolivarian Revolution is Chavez's idea and his policy and his plan for the country.
    Yea cool.

    If there were no Hugo there would be no revolution.
    I agree. But now without Hugo there will still be a continuation of his policies in my belief.

    And make no mistake a dictator can be elected and even reelected. So when you assert that Chavez was fairly elected even if I were to believe that it still does not prove that he is not acting as an dictator.
    Well i guess in your opinion if someone is doing you disagree with then he is a dictator.
    A dictator is a a ruler who is unconstrained by law. Hugo is restrained by law and the constitution.


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    Re: Chavez's cancer has 'entered the end stage'

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Right....
    I could comment on plenty of stuff..
    I dont really need to comment on each and everything that you say. If there is a point that you are trying to make and I seem to have ignored it reword it and say it again.


    Never said it was.
    I didn't say that you said so either.


    Not until the early 50's.
    Many countries dont have term limits. I personally think term limits should be removed.
    true it wasn't until about 52 when the law included term limits. But there was an ethics code that most politicians followed that barred them to only two terms. Since it was the framers original intention to have term limits we latter actually made it Constitutional law. The main reasoning was that if there was the possibility that a president could run for life that there was also the possibility of tyranny as well. So we fixed something that should have been fixed from the start. But it was an hard dell to the Federalists, since the Federalists wanted to return to a monarchy. But they faded and never gained that kind of control..


    And riots in the streets
    My point still stands though that the judicial system is not intact in Venezuela. But I agree that in my example there would be riots and I would be one of them rioting.


    You do realize this new Constitution was voted on by the people?
    Did the people know what they were voting for? It is widely known that the education system in Venezuela sucks and it really sucked when that vote was made.


    Specifics please.
    Here is some: World Report 2011: Venezuela | Human Rights Watch



    Voted on by the people in a national referendum again....
    Again did they know what they were voting for?


    Cool...
    Sounds like a president. (If you dont vote for my x, y, and z will happen)
    Presidents dont usually totally reorganize a country as policy.


    In your opinion right?
    Yes


    13 years is no where close to "life long".
    The power of the people does not revolve around one individual.


    I dont know?
    Because many people around the world and many democracies around the world, see term limits are useless.
    And what countries would that be?


    Sure there is.
    If the people of the country beleive this leader is doing a great job and believe and like the programs and the way the leader is handling the business of government.
    Earlier you admitted that Chavez was no angel. No population keeps a ruler for too long unless they are forced. Lets see how this election goes.

    In your humble opinion correct?
    Also "average citizens" in Venezuela are becoming leaders in their communities with the help of communes and workplace democracy.
    It is those community leaders that should be given the chance to move up. No term limits denies those people the liberty to run on good faith.

    Cool.
    That is if they win...
    Why promote a policy that would deny the common people a chance to run for office? How can a school teacher in Venezuela compete with Chavez?


    Got a quote on this? Or is this another one of your humble opinons?
    Hmmm did you miss the IMO....





    Have to be approved by the national assembly.
    One that favors him.


    Yea cool.
    In other words its an one man Revolution.


    I agree. But now without Hugo there will still be a continuation of his policies in my belief.
    Well of course his brother will step up to the plate.


    Well i guess in your opinion if someone is doing you disagree with then he is a dictator.
    A dictator is a a ruler who is unconstrained by law. Hugo is restrained by law and the constitution.
    Hugo seems like he is able to do whatever he wants. Like build a 130million dollar resting place for Simon Bolivar. 130m could have done a lot for the poor people of Venezuela. Perhaps it will be Chavez's resting place? Again we will wait and see. Venezuela: Why the big mausoleum, Mr. Chavez? | GlobalPost

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    Re: Chavez's cancer has 'entered the end stage'

    Freedom for all
    That still does not make either system better.
    Well I dont' know about cuba, but Venezuela cut poverty in half, increased democratic participation, increased health care coverage and so on and so forth ....

    Thats ridiculous, owning firearms does not compare to owning military vehicles.
    Well your gonna need military vehicles to actually be able to keep power in check ... As you said was the point of firearm rights.

    That is a strawman argument since I do not assert that gun ownership alone is a bases of a dictatorship.
    But you claim it leads to it.

    Here is what you did: me:"A is bad example of B." you: "C sucks!" Thats great that you have an opinion on Capitalism but its of no relevance.
    My point was asking whether or not Venezuela is a great example of democratic socialism is a stupid question.

    There are 165 seats in the national assembly of those 97 are filled by chavez's party. And 2 more by communists allied with Chavez. And 1 more ally. Which is a lot more than 50%. Plus the national assembly is not all of the government. Not to mention that CHavez has the military in his portfolio.
    Yeah ... Its a representative democracy ... but its not 95% of the government ....

    Im not sure how you believe that such an fallacy will help your case.
    You havn't shown that Venezuela is anything more or less politically than a representative democracy, that happens to enact socail-democratic reforms.

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    Re: Chavez's cancer has 'entered the end stage'

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    Well I dont' know about cuba, but Venezuela cut poverty in half, increased democratic participation, increased health care coverage and so on and so forth ....
    You couldnt go anywhere but up from the conditions Venezuela was in. Well thats not true there is rock bottom. But Venezuela isnt as good as it could be at this point. Try telling those that are still in poverty that things are better. Try telling the people rationing water and power how great things are. Chavez has had plenty of time to make huge changes in terms of poverty yet poverty is still high in Venezuela. Cutting poverty in half isnt good enough. I would say at best that his efforts have been half ass.



    Well your gonna need military vehicles to actually be able to keep power in check ... As you said was the point of firearm rights.
    I said that politically that firearms can keep the government in check. Every vehicle has a potential to be a military vehicle. We do not need to keep tanks or fighter jets in our garages. Come on be serious.



    But you claim it leads to it.
    Again I said that it is a element not the entire method, give upo your line of strawman argument no matter how much you try you wont convince me that I asserted something that I did not.



    My point was asking whether or not Venezuela is a great example of democratic socialism is a stupid question.
    That is because Venezuela is not a great example of democratic socialism, right? But a shining example of a type of Marxism? Which would be a bit further Left than democratic socialism, right?



    Yeah ... Its a representative democracy ... but its not 95% of the government ....



    You havn't shown that Venezuela is anything more or less politically than a representative democracy, that happens to enact socail-democratic reforms.
    thats an great appearance, but in reality the same people have been in control of the country for over a decade. IMHO a democracy demands that the people representing the people of the country do not hold on to that power for decades. Obviously this means that I am not happy with our own democracy here in the US. So forget coming back with some assertion about our own failures. I am not claiming that the US is perfect. In fact I am just making the observation that the people of Venezuela are in grave danger of being trapped in a system that will not allow them the freedoms that all humans require to live happy.

    When you guys stand in solidarity with Hugo Chavez you will be just as guilty ethically with each injustice that Venezuelans must endure. Why stand with an faction that does no effect you personally? Why cant you just be skeptical of Hugo Chavez's authority? If things turn out good then there was no loss by me not trusting Chavez. But if things turn out bad your movement has signed itself to a tyrant. Think about the logic in that. Are you willing to have socialism related to a tyrant? How far are you setting back socialism by refusing to accept that Hugo Chavez is not a saint out to help his people? The 130m dollar mausoleum should be enough to show you that. 130m spent on a building to house a dead guy when over 30% of the population is at risk? Perhaps the homeless people should take it over and occupy it? Who does it belong too the people or the government?

    Here is Venezuela Flickr: Search Venezuela


    "I am also a Trotskyist! I follow Trotsky's line, that of permanent revolution'." Hugo Chavez

    For those that do not know what the Trotsky's line is read this:

    "With regard to countries with a belated bourgeois development, especially the colonial and semi-colonial countries, the theory of the permanent revolution signifies that the complete and genuine solution of their tasks of achieving democracy and national emancipation is conceivable only through the dictatorship of the proletariat as the leader of the subjugated nation, above all of its peasant masses.

    "Not only the agrarian, but also the national question assigns to the peasantry - the overwhelming majority of the population in backward countries - an exceptional place in the democratic revolution. Without an alliance of the proletariat with the peasantry the tasks of the democratic revolution cannot be solved, nor even seriously posed. But the alliance of these two classes can be realized in no other way than through an irreconcilable struggle against the influence of the national-liberal bourgeoisie.

    "This in turn means that the victory of the democratic revolution is conceivable only through the dictatorship of the proletariat which bases itself upon the alliance with the peasantry and solves first of all the tasks of the democratic revolution.

    "The dictatorship of the proletariat which has risen to power as the leader of the democratic revolution is inevitably and, very quickly confronted with tasks, the fulfilment of which is bound up with deep inroads into the rights of bourgeois property. The democratic revolution grows over directly into the socialist revolution and thereby becomes a permanent revolution". Trotsky


    But what is this about a dictatorship of the proletariat? Well any Marxist will tell you that Marx, Engels, Lenin, and Trotsky that it did not mean Authoritarianism. What they would say though is that it would "create democracy for the people, for the majority, along with the necessary suppression of the exploiters, of the minority." Or in other words a dictatorship by the majority.
    Minorities have no power in a Marxist government. You either join the majority or you do nothing.

    Bu then Hugo Chavez isnt a a real Trotsky either since he would have to abide by these constraints:

    1) Free and democratic elections with the right of the electors to recall every and any official.

    2) No official to receive a wage higher than that of a skilled worker.

    3) No standing army but an armed people.

    4) Gradually, all administrative tasks will be performed by everyone in turn, that way when "everyone is a bureaucrat no one is a bureaucrat".


    Now hy would Chavez push for no term limits when everyone is supposed to become a bureaucrat? Remember the catch phrase power to the people! ? Well Chavez doesnt appear to believe in that ethic. Instead he wants to retain his power. Why cant the revolution survive without him in office? Why cant he show the people that they are the ones in power by stepping down especially since he has cancer? If he was sincere he would make a speech and hand his position over to the people and abolish the presidency position altogether. Why do the people need a leader?


    I do not think that you are looking at this logically at all. All I want is justice and the required freedoms that Venezuelans deserve not some politician that wants to be president for the rest of his life. If Chavez wins this election it puts him in office for a total of 20 years at the end of his term. Hugo would be 63 by the time the next elections come up. The life expectancy in Venezuela is 73. so hes two terms away from being a leader for the rest of his life, well unless he dies from cancer then he was.

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    Re: Chavez's cancer has 'entered the end stage'

    You couldnt go anywhere but up from the conditions Venezuela was in. Well thats not true there is rock bottom. But Venezuela isnt as good as it could be at this point. Try telling those that are still in poverty that things are better. Try telling the people rationing water and power how great things are. Chavez has had plenty of time to make huge changes in terms of poverty yet poverty is still high in Venezuela. Cutting poverty in half isnt good enough. I would say at best that his efforts have been half ass.
    So improving a ton isn't good enough for you, unless it becomes perfect its a failure ...

    Well I suppose you think going back to a neo-liberal govenrment would be better, how it was before ...Jesus christ your disingenous.

    Chavez made huge improvements, but becasue of your ideology he's still a failure, because its not perfect, and neo-liberalism would be better, even though it wasn't.

    I said that politically that firearms can keep the government in check. Every vehicle has a potential to be a military vehicle. We do not need to keep tanks or fighter jets in our garages. Come on be serious.
    .... Yeah, serious, so get your SUV out and your shotgun and lets take on the US military ....

    That is because Venezuela is not a great example of democratic socialism, right? But a shining example of a type of Marxism? Which would be a bit further Left than democratic socialism, right?
    Marxism is positive economics not normative economics.

    I'm saying Venezuela has a much better system than before and a much better system than the neo-liberal program.

    thats an great appearance, but in reality the same people have been in control of the country for over a decade. IMHO a democracy demands that the people representing the people of the country do not hold on to that power for decades. Obviously this means that I am not happy with our own democracy here in the US. So forget coming back with some assertion about our own failures. I am not claiming that the US is perfect. In fact I am just making the observation that the people of Venezuela are in grave danger of being trapped in a system that will not allow them the freedoms that all humans require to live happy.
    No more than any other representative democratic system ....

    Your juts making assertations ..

    When you guys stand in solidarity with Hugo Chavez you will be just as guilty ethically with each injustice that Venezuelans must endure. Why stand with an faction that does no effect you personally? Why cant you just be skeptical of Hugo Chavez's authority? If things turn out good then there was no loss by me not trusting Chavez. But if things turn out bad your movement has signed itself to a tyrant. Think about the logic in that. Are you willing to have socialism related to a tyrant? How far are you setting back socialism by refusing to accept that Hugo Chavez is not a saint out to help his people? The 130m dollar mausoleum should be enough to show you that. 130m spent on a building to house a dead guy when over 30% of the population is at risk? Perhaps the homeless people should take it over and occupy it? Who does it belong too the people or the government?
    A: I actually thing chavez should step down
    B: I'm saying its a much better system than the neo-liberal one, no more no less.

    BTW, I don't care if he's a troskiest or not, I care about what he does, he also is a christian.

    Now hy would Chavez push for no term limits when everyone is supposed to become a bureaucrat? Remember the catch phrase power to the people! ? Well Chavez doesnt appear to believe in that ethic. Instead he wants to retain his power. Why cant the revolution survive without him in office? Why cant he show the people that they are the ones in power by stepping down especially since he has cancer? If he was sincere he would make a speech and hand his position over to the people and abolish the presidency position altogether. Why do the people need a leader?
    As I said I think he should step down, but just because he wants to keep running doesn't make him a dictator ....


    I do not think that you are looking at this logically at all. All I want is justice and the required freedoms that Venezuelans deserve not some politician that wants to be president for the rest of his life. If Chavez wins this election it puts him in office for a total of 20 years at the end of his term. Hugo would be 63 by the time the next elections come up. The life expectancy in Venezuela is 73. so hes two terms away from being a leader for the rest of his life, well unless he dies from cancer then he was.
    I am looking at this logically ... You just seam to be against anything that calls itself anti-capitalist.

    again. I dont' care about Chavez, I care about good policies.

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    Re: Chavez's cancer has 'entered the end stage'

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    true it wasn't until about 52 when the law included term limits. But there was an ethics code that most politicians followed that barred them to only two terms.
    The only "code" was that George Washington served two terms

    Since it was the framers original intention to have term limits
    It was???
    If it was why not put it in the constitution when they had a chance?
    They had a huge debate on it in the convention.

    we latter actually made it Constitutional law.
    That we did

    The main reasoning was that if there was the possibility that a president could run for life that there was also the possibility of tyranny as well.
    That is terrible reasoning.
    Just because a president keeps on getting reelected does not mean magically tyranny would form. In a democracy such as ours "tyranny" would not come from one man.

    So we fixed something that should have been fixed from the start. But it was an hard dell to the Federalists, since the Federalists wanted to return to a monarchy. But they faded and never gained that kind of control..
    Well thats good.


    I will post my PM i sent to a user earlier tonight about term limits when he PM's me back cuz for some reason my PM folders wont let me see sent items..


    My point still stands though that the judicial system is not intact in Venezuela.
    How is it "not intact"?



    Did the people know what they were voting for?
    I hope so.
    Do you have information that they didnt?
    I have proof that they did on one of Chavez referendums to the Constitution in 2007: Chavez loses constitutional vote - World news - Venezuela - msnbc.com

    So i kinda think they know what they are voting for...
    It is widely known that the education system in Venezuela sucks and it really sucked when that vote was made.
    Venezuela actually has a pretty darn good educational system for being in Latin America

    List of Latin American countries by Human Development Index - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    The example they give is a very big problem.
    "Afiuni was judging a financier named Eligio Cedeño who was involved in several corruption cases. He was initially charged with embezzlement of millions of dollars from banking institutions, essentially stealing the money from customers. Another charge against him was that he and an accomplice deceived CADIVI, our office of currency control, by ostensibly buying computers for almost US $30 million but bringing only empty containers to the country. The financier’s accomplice was arrested in Panama more than a year and half ago, and after being turned over to the authorities of Venezuela confessed the whole scheme. His lawyers delayed the trial with legal maneuvers, until about six months ago, when Judge Afiuni herself walked Mr. Cedeño out of the courtroom and escorted him with two other employees of her court to the internal parking lot for judges, where Cedeño boarded a motorcycle that was let into the lot by Afiuni’s instruction.Then Afiuni returned to the courtroom to write the ruling with the decision to liberate Cedeño and afterwards she sat down and said loud and clear that she would sit where she was to wait for the suspension letter to arrive from her superiors.
    The usual legal practice is that whenever an inmate is freed by ruling of a judge, he is taken back to prison where he waits for the arrival of the release order signed by the judge, something that usually happens in a matter of one or two hours. This was violated by Afiuni to be sure Cedeño would get away."
    A Few Facts about the Case of Judge A

    Also the same report has been under heavy criticism by scholars: More Than 100 Latin America Experts Question Human Rights Watch's Venezuela Report | venezuelanalysis.com



    Presidents dont usually totally reorganize a country as policy.
    I never said they did. I said they run on the position of past policies and furutre policies they want to inact.

    The power of the people does not revolve around one individual.
    It doesnt in Venezuela
    Venezuelan Communal Councils - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    And what countries would that be?
    Japan
    UK
    Australia


    Earlier you admitted that Chavez was no angel.
    Ok how does this play into this period of the debate?
    I dont think he is an "angel" i dont think anyone is an "angel". But i think he is a great leader and the best for Venezuela and i support him

    No population keeps a ruler for too long unless they are forced.
    That isnt true at all especially when you have the power of the vote
    Lets see how this election goes.
    Lets see.

    It is those community leaders that should be given the chance to move up. No term limits denies those people the liberty to run on good faith.
    They have the right to if they want...


    Why promote a policy that would deny the common people a chance to run for office? How can a school teacher in Venezuela compete with Chavez?
    No term limits does not deny the people the right to run for office...
    Please show the logic behind this..



    One that favors him.
    Cool. They won on a democratic vote.
    Why is it a problem that party he belongs to is the most popular in the country currently?

    In other words its an one man Revolution.
    Maybe maybe not. We wont know until Chavez is gone.

    Well of course his brother will step up to the plate.
    Maybe maybe not. If he does he has to win elections.

    Hugo seems like he is able to do whatever he wants. Like build a 130million dollar resting place for Simon Bolivar. 130m could have done a lot for the poor people of Venezuela. Perhaps it will be Chavez's resting place? Again we will wait and see. Venezuela: Why the big mausoleum, Mr. Chavez? | GlobalPost
    Shocker he built a monument...
    How evil....


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    Re: Chavez's cancer has 'entered the end stage'

    Here was my PM about term limits:

    "I believe they (term limits) are pointless. If people like you and you are a good leader and you are operating in free and fair elections the people can no longer vote for who they want. You also loose leaders, and experienced government officials. They are undemocratic. Plus democratic elections also are basically a sort of limit, they are a structural limitation, hense you have to win if you want to hold power.
    More reasons include if you cannot run for a position because of a term limit and a new leader is elected that person who previously held the position takes all the experience and essential skills and work experience, and when a new leader comes in they will have to develop this from scratch. Also leaders who have reached a term limit are more likely to ignore the will of the people and the promises they promised on the campaign since they wont face a electorate after their last term.
    They also serve little to no purpose. If you are popular amongst your people why should something such as a term limit hold your back for running again? It slows down democracy, and government."


  10. #230
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    RGacky3's Avatar
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    08-25-15 @ 05:22 AM
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    Re: Chavez's cancer has 'entered the end stage'

    I dissagree, it can become very easy, without term limits and serious checks, for one person to game the system, in an uncorruptable system fine, but thats impossible.

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