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Thread: Chavez's cancer has 'entered the end stage'

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    Re: Chavez's cancer has 'entered the end stage'

    No matter who approved it still is the Government dictating to the people on what should be basic rights.
    Every government does that ...

    It the right to own a gun that maters as all rights matter.
    How is that a right? Are the European countries that restrict gun rights (and the US) dictatorships because they do?

    Is Venezuela a great example of Democratic Socialism?
    As much as Colombia is a great example of Capitalism ...

    Chavez = dictator pretty much covers all of it.
    Only if you redefine the definition of dictator that would end up making Both Bush and Obama dictators.

    Cuban policy is simply "Do what the Castros want" there really is anything to debate in a dictatorship. .
    You obviously have no knowledge of actual Cuban politics.

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    Re: Chavez's cancer has 'entered the end stage'

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    Venezuela and Cuba are intertwined as it is. Hugo Chavez is not shy about letting it be known that Castro is like a father to him.
    Hugo has said Castro is a great friend and comrade. He is an ally. They are not "intertwined". Its not like what Castro says goes in Cuba.


    No matter who approved it still is the Government dictating to the people on what should be basic rights.
    What is a basic right in your opinion?
    I believe basic rights are food, water, shelter, clothing, healthcare, education. I believe that the right to bear arms is a privileged right we have in this country, in which a lot of countries think differently about.



    Sure we do all we need to do is look at the results.
    4.8% of people own firearms in a country where its kinda impoverished. Maybe you know their worries arent lets go buy guns!? Maybe they have different worries. And they are a pretty nonviolent people. Murder and crime rate is low there so they dont have much to worry about..





    yes we have a historically good idea see pre WW2 Germany.
    Huh?
    what that even mean?


    the current law on firearms in Cuba was a decree (Decree-Law 262 on firearms and ammunition). Now owning such things as a .22 rifle or shotgun is extremely difficult.
    Source on that?

    Hence why the number of owners is so low in the Cuba only 1500 and some change rifles are owned by private citizens. Shotguns are about 43,000 owned but with a population of over a 11 million its a drop in the bucket.
    Do you have proof that the reason why most citizens dont own firearms is low is because of the government oppressing their right to own arms?
    You do realize how much guns cost and how much the average monthly wage in Cuba is correct?

    But at moments notice all of these firearms can be taken away in Cuba.
    A moment notice all our guns can be taken away..
    Anywhere that can happen

    All it takes is another decree law and they have all of the addresses on hand. WHich is how Hugo is able to disarm the population of Venezuela by making everyone register first then just showing up to retrieve the weapons.
    Cool opinion.


    It the right to own a gun that maters as all rights matter.
    Buts its not considered a right in all parts of the world... That is your humble opinion.


    Hugo Chavez did not ask the people if they wanted their guns taken away.
    However they did call on him to lower crime. And he is trying to and this is one of the ways they are expirmenting with.
    However you still are forgetting that you are allowed to own a gun with a permit in Venezuela.


    Is Venezuela a great example of Democratic Socialism?
    They are using the process and ideology of Democratic Socialism to make life better in Venezuela.


    Yes I am aware of Leftist tactics. The use of propaganda the lies told to children to use them for eventual supremacy. Doesnt sound like a sustainable venture though.
    This is why its kinda hard to debate with you a take you seriously.



    Chavez = dictator pretty much covers all of it.
    Yep a democratically elected leader is a dictator.
    With a national congress that is about 43% against him and media that hates him in his own country and eletcions where he allows people to run against him. Sounds like quite the dictator.


    Cuban policy is simply "Do what the Castros want" there really is anything to debate in a dictatorship.
    Yea you have no idea about Cuban politics.


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    Re: Chavez's cancer has 'entered the end stage'

    Chavez has launched his bid for presidency in front of supporters. Gave a very long speech and seems to be vibrant and claimed he is healthy.

    Chavez and Capriles Launch Bid for Venezuelan Presidency | venezuelanalysis.com


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    Re: Chavez's cancer has 'entered the end stage'

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    Every government does that ...
    So That means that Cuba and Venezuela are not better types of systems.



    How is that a right?
    The concept is called hedging freedom.
    Are the European countries that restrict gun rights (and the US) dictatorships because they do?
    The US not perfect there is alot that could be improved.


    As much as Colombia is a great example of Capitalism ...
    Is Venezuela a great example of Democratic Socialism? Nope wasnt a mention of Capitalism in that question.



    Only if you redefine the definition of dictator that would end up making Both Bush and Obama dictators.
    Both Bush and Obama have married themselves to the Patriot Act which makes them both bad presidents. But even the Patriot Act did not come with a new Constitution. Over 95% of the Venezuelan government is controlled by CHavez political party. And I do mean Chavez's political party since he is also the president of it as well of other organizations. SO Venezuela is virtually a one party system, one party system ran by a single person is a dictatorship no matter how many people vote if there are no choices or very few its not what one would call democracy.



    You obviously have no knowledge of actual Cuban politics.
    Yea thanx for the judgement you seem to full of them.

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    Re: Chavez's cancer has 'entered the end stage'

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Hugo has said Castro is a great friend and comrade. He is an ally. They are not "intertwined". Its not like what Castro says goes in Cuba.
    Yea nothing to see just move on huh?



    What is a basic right in your opinion?
    I believe basic rights are food, water, shelter, clothing, healthcare, education. I believe that the right to bear arms is a privileged right we have in this country, in which a lot of countries think differently about.
    Freedom. Nothing matters without freedom.




    4.8% of people own firearms in a country where its kinda impoverished. Maybe you know their worries arent lets go buy guns!? Maybe they have different worries. And they are a pretty nonviolent people. Murder and crime rate is low there so they dont have much to worry about..
    Thats a great excuse.




    Huh?
    what that even mean?
    It means pick up a history book.



    Source on that?
    Seriously? Global Legal Information Network


    Do you have proof that the reason why most citizens dont own firearms is low is because of the government oppressing their right to own arms?
    You do realize how much guns cost and how much the average monthly wage in Cuba is correct?
    Why isnt Cuba sustainable by now?

    Industry: Types--sugar and food processing, oil refining, cement, electric power, light consumer and industrial products, pharmaceutical and biotech products.
    Trade: Exports (2009)--$2.88 billion f.o.b.: nickel/cobalt, oil and oil derivatives, pharmaceutical and biotech products, sugar and its byproducts, tobacco, seafood, citrus, tropical fruits, coffee. Major export markets (2009)--Venezuela $533 million (19%); China $517 million (18%); Canada $434 million (15%); Netherlands $237 million (8%); Spain $155 million (5%); Russia $88 million (3%); Brazil $69 million (2%); Netherlands Antilles $59 million (2%); France $45 million (2%); others $742 million (26%). Imports (2009)--$8.91 billion f.o.b.: petroleum, food, machinery, chemicals. Major import suppliers (2009)--Venezuela $2.6 billion (29%); China $1.17 billion (13%); Spain $753 billion (8%); United States $675 million (8%); Brazil $509 million (6%); Italy $324 million (4%); Mexico $303 million (3%); Canada $292 million (3%); Vietnam $276 million (3%); Germany $275 million (3%); others $1.7 billion (19%).
    Cuba has two currencies in circulation: the peso (CUP), and the convertible peso (CUC), both of which are fixed by the government. The CUC is fixed at 1:1 with the U.S. dollar, and 24:1 with the Cuban peso (CUP). State enterprises, however, must exchange CUP and CUC at a 1:1 ratio, an artificial rate that hinders domestic fiscal accounting. The Cuban Government levies a penalty of 10% on CUC-U.S. dollar transactions.
    Cuba

    Cuba seems to making out all right why is the population so poor then?


    A moment notice all our guns can be taken away..
    Anywhere that can happen
    Not all guns are required to be registered everywhere.


    Cool opinion.



    Buts its not considered a right in all parts of the world... That is your humble opinion.
    Again its about freedom not the actual guns.


    However they did call on him to lower crime. And he is trying to and this is one of the ways they are expirmenting with.
    However you still are forgetting that you are allowed to own a gun with a permit in Venezuela.
    Yes right now you can own a gun in Venezuela with the proper papers but the plan for the immediate future is to disarm the entire civilian population of Venezuela. All guns soon will be banned no civiian will be able to own any firearm at all.



    They are using the process and ideology of Democratic Socialism to make life better in Venezuela.
    That would be an opinion. If you look closely Chavez's Government is loosely Democratic Socialist. Please dont tell me that you of all people dont know that?



    This is why its kinda hard to debate with you a take you seriously.
    Why because I am honest?




    Yep a democratically elected leader is a dictator.
    With a national congress that is about 43% against him and media that hates him in his own country and eletcions where he allows people to run against him. Sounds like quite the dictator.
    List of political parties in Venezuela - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia PSUV has 97 seats add the 2 seats held by the PPT plus add the PVC 1 So its 100 seats to 65 not really a fair fight considering that the opposition is splintered. So by default Chavez can do anything that he wants since at the very least he controls 97 seats.


    Yea you have no idea about Cuban politics.
    lol thats a funny response not at all effective though.

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    Re: Chavez's cancer has 'entered the end stage'

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Chavez has launched his bid for presidency in front of supporters. Gave a very long speech and seems to be vibrant and claimed he is healthy.

    Chavez and Capriles Launch Bid for Venezuelan Presidency | venezuelanalysis.com
    So was he ever actually sick? All I have seen is a shaved head he certainly didnt loose the weight that one would expect with cancer treatments. Having had cancer I know a little about that. But dont take my word look it up.

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    Re: Chavez's cancer has 'entered the end stage'

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    Yea nothing to see just move on huh?
    Similar in several ways.. but in all ways, no. In the context you are saying without in facts or source to back up your claim, no.



    Freedom. Nothing matters without freedom.
    They have freedom.





    Thats a great excuse.
    Its not an excuse.




    It means pick up a history book.
    I have.
    Still waiting on your point...


    That states nothing in depth.


    Why isnt Cuba sustainable by now?

    Industry: Types--sugar and food processing, oil refining, cement, electric power, light consumer and industrial products, pharmaceutical and biotech products.
    Trade: Exports (2009)--$2.88 billion f.o.b.: nickel/cobalt, oil and oil derivatives, pharmaceutical and biotech products, sugar and its byproducts, tobacco, seafood, citrus, tropical fruits, coffee. Major export markets (2009)--Venezuela $533 million (19%); China $517 million (18%); Canada $434 million (15%); Netherlands $237 million (8%); Spain $155 million (5%); Russia $88 million (3%); Brazil $69 million (2%); Netherlands Antilles $59 million (2%); France $45 million (2%); others $742 million (26%). Imports (2009)--$8.91 billion f.o.b.: petroleum, food, machinery, chemicals. Major import suppliers (2009)--Venezuela $2.6 billion (29%); China $1.17 billion (13%); Spain $753 billion (8%); United States $675 million (8%); Brazil $509 million (6%); Italy $324 million (4%); Mexico $303 million (3%); Canada $292 million (3%); Vietnam $276 million (3%); Germany $275 million (3%); others $1.7 billion (19%).
    Cuba has two currencies in circulation: the peso (CUP), and the convertible peso (CUC), both of which are fixed by the government. The CUC is fixed at 1:1 with the U.S. dollar, and 24:1 with the Cuban peso (CUP). State enterprises, however, must exchange CUP and CUC at a 1:1 ratio, an artificial rate that hinders domestic fiscal accounting. The Cuban Government levies a penalty of 10% on CUC-U.S. dollar transactions.
    Cuba
    It goes beyond that costing the Cuban economy 4.155 billion per year.
    http://www.dollarsandsense.org/archives/2009/0309pepper.htm

    Also the Helms Burton act extends to foreign companies trading with Cuba.

    Cuba seems to making out all right why is the population so poor then?
    Not really. Not with the Embargo.


    Not all guns are required to be registered everywhere.
    In some countries yes...

    Again its about freedom not the actual guns.
    This might come as a shocker to you but people have different definitions of freedom, and many countries believe that freedom does not entail that you should be able to purchase a firearms without registering them.

    Yes right now you can own a gun in Venezuela with the proper papers but the plan for the immediate future is to disarm the entire civilian population of Venezuela. All guns soon will be banned no civiian will be able to own any firearm at all.
    True, if they keep with the current program.


    That would be an opinion. If you look closely Chavez's Government is loosely Democratic Socialist. Please dont tell me that you of all people dont know that?
    They have initiated programs using Democratic Socialism, but they are not a "Democratic socialist" country.

    Why because I am honest?
    No. That is being the opposite of honest.


    List of political parties in Venezuela - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia PSUV has 97 seats add the 2 seats held by the PPT plus add the PVC 1 So its 100 seats to 65 not really a fair fight considering that the opposition is splintered. So by default Chavez can do anything that he wants since at the very least he controls 97 seats.
    96 seats.
    Plus all democratically elected. Thats like saying if the Republicans or Democrats gained a super majority then they would be dictators in your book...



    lol thats a funny response not at all effective though.
    Please enlighten me about Cuba in another thread. Because last time I checked this is about Venezuela not Cuba.


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    Re: Chavez's cancer has 'entered the end stage'

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post


    96 seats.
    Plus all democratically elected. Thats like saying if the Republicans or Democrats gained a super majority then they would be dictators in your book...
    Im opposed to political parties since they are nothing but factions that do not represent all citizens equally. So yes in my book a super majority dictates to the minorities.

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    Re: Chavez's cancer has 'entered the end stage'

    Ignore the rest of the post... I gotcha....


    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    Im opposed to political parties since they are nothing but factions that do not represent all citizens equally. So yes in my book a super majority dictates to the minorities.
    Well that would go against inherently the concept of a dictator and a dictatorship.


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    Re: Chavez's cancer has 'entered the end stage'

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Ignore the rest of the post... I gotcha...
    There wasnt really anything else to comment on.




    Well that would go against inherently the concept of a dictator and a dictatorship.
    The situation in the US is not identical as it is in Venezuela. We actually have term limits on the Presidency. If say the Republicans obtained an super majority they will most certainly abuse that power. And they will do so while telling us that it is good for the country. Abortion will be outlawed social programs cut and so on. And if they maintain such power then they will start with the Christian crap until all things in government will be based on religion. And the only way that would happen is with such power they were able to dictate to the rest of us. Christians are already running telling us that they are the majority and we should get in line. What they lack though is a single person in the Presidency heading their dictatorship. So instead it would be a dictatorship by the majority. None of which could happen had this country remained a party less system. But our saving grace is the judicial system and the Constitutions power. Chavez on the other hand engineered his Constitution to make it easier for him to get his Bolivarian Revolution through the door and maintained. But the first thing that he did was to neuter the judicial system in Venezuela.
    So despite previously being voted down he was able to finally eliminate term limits. And his excuse is solely based on the need for him to personally keep the Bolivarian Revolution going as if no one else can. If he really was a man of integrity he would have only served one term of maybe two. Not corrupt the system so that he can become a life long ruler. I mean why not change it to where he could serve say 6 terms or something that doesnt make him most likely to die of old age in office? there is no rational reason that a single individual needs to be the president for such an indefinite amount of time. There are likely hundreds or even thousands of average citizens that could and would do a better job why deny the peoples right to rule themselves? Term limits ensures that more people would get the chance to serve their country as President. IMO CHavez told the people of Venezuela that he does not trust them and therfore he must alone dictate the revolution. Its sounds a bit to egotistical.



    The part that your missing is that Hugo Chavez even if legitimately or not elected is making decisions for the country that may or may not be voted on. The point is that the Bolivarian Revolution is Chavez's idea and his policy and his plan for the country. If there were no Hugo there would be no revolution. And make no mistake a dictator can be elected and even reelected. So when you assert that Chavez was fairly elected even if I were to believe that it still does not prove that he is not acting as an dictator.

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