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Thread: Chavez's cancer has 'entered the end stage'

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    Re: Chavez's cancer has 'entered the end stage'

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    After reading the Wikipedia article on Hugo Chavez, there's no mention of his supposed death at all. Then I searched "Is Hugo Chavez dead?" on Google, and apparently in April 2012 his dispelled rumors of his death.

    So... is there any actual proof he's dead?
    No he recently made a public appearance stating he is healthy. It was a unconfirmed report that he "was on the verge of death"


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    Re: Chavez's cancer has 'entered the end stage'

    Quote Originally Posted by falcata View Post
    Not nessacarily so. Many Native American Societies lasted for thousands of years in society complexes that were incredibally similar to socialism. And some countries although not as totally socialistic today still maintain many socialistic properties of their former governments because in reality it worked for them.
    Native Americans were never Socialists. And the unnamed countries that you are talking about are irrelevant to America. Most Americans do not want Socialism, you would have to force us to be Socialist. It just is not going to work period end of story.

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    Re: Chavez's cancer has 'entered the end stage'

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    Native Americans were never Socialists. And the unnamed countries that you are talking about are irrelevant to America. Most Americans do not want Socialism, you would have to force us to be Socialist. It just is not going to work period end of story.
    The Aymara in Bolivia and Peru where I worked as a Peace Corps volunteer for two years hold all of their land in common, that is to say, it all belongs to the village and can be worked by anyone. Any crops produced belong to the person who worked the fields, but the land itself is owned in common.

    Such a system is pretty common among the native Americans. No one individual owns the means of production, instead, it is owned in common by the village.

    Such socialism on a small scale is common and workable. It is when the "village" becomes a nation that such ideas fall apart.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: Chavez's cancer has 'entered the end stage'

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Yes i know this. We have gone over this about 3 times already but Venezuela is not the only country ran by those evil dirty leftists you do realize this correct?
    Yes I realize that Leftists are control of other countries. But tell me the reasoning of Hugo Chavez removing the right to bear arms in his country? To stop the violence or is because he does not want to be taken out of office again?


    Yea and the reasons are "
    Cuba are required to prove genuine reason to possess a firearm, for example, hunting, target, shooting, collection, personal protection"

    Ok.... Maybe they are not gun hungry?
    Obviously it is hard to convince the government that you have an legit reason to own a firearm. I mean who goes hunting with a handgun?


    It states that they have the right of struggle through the use of arms.
    Really? Have a link? Even if that is so they cannot use any long guns in their struggle.


    Yes im sure that is exactly what it is.
    So are you claiming to know exactly why Cuba has severe gun control? I really doubt that you know since a moment a go you were telling us that Cuba has no gun controls by asserting to us that gun ownership was protected in the Cuban constitution. But as I showed you that is not the case at all.

    Video: Man bundled away for anti-communist protest at Pope's Mass in Cuba - Telegraph

    Cuba news: Latest anti-government protest fizzles before Castro supporters | GlobalPost

    BBC News - Cuban opposition activists arrested in Havana

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    Re: Chavez's cancer has 'entered the end stage'

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    Yes I realize that Leftists are control of other countries. But tell me the reasoning of Hugo Chavez removing the right to bear arms in his country? To stop the violence or is because he does not want to be taken out of office again?
    You already know the answer to this question we have already discussed this quite a while ago.



    Obviously it is hard to convince the government that you have an legit reason to own a firearm. I mean who goes hunting with a handgun?
    You are allowed to own a shotgun in Cuba however.

    Really? Have a link? Even if that is so they cannot use any long guns in their struggle.
    Right to keep and bear arms - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    So are you claiming to know exactly why Cuba has severe gun control?
    No im stating neither do you know why they have a somewhat strict gun control...

    I really doubt that you know since a moment a go you were telling us that Cuba has no gun controls
    I never stated that. Dont make up **** and try to put words in my mouth. I claimed that you are allowed to own firearms in Cuba (which you are).

    by asserting to us that gun ownership was protected in the Cuban constitution.
    It is

    But as I showed you that is not the case at all.
    No you showed me that they have gun laws. Just because you have gun laws that restrict some firearms does not mean you are not allowed to own guns. You are allowed to own guns in cuba. Handguns and shotguns. You have to go through a process but you are allowed to own firearms.

    Has nothing to do with guns in Cuba
    Has nothing to do with this subject
    [/QUOTE]
    Has nothing to do with this subject.
    Can we try to stay on subject here FreedomFromAll?


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    Re: Chavez's cancer has 'entered the end stage'

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    Native Americans were never Socialists. And the unnamed countries that you are talking about are irrelevant to America. Most Americans do not want Socialism, you would have to force us to be Socialist. It just is not going to work period end of story.
    you are right ,but no revolution takes form through an election in which most americans vote
    "Sovereignty is not given, it is taken." ATATÜRK

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    Re: Chavez's cancer has 'entered the end stage'

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    No he recently made a public appearance stating he is healthy. It was a unconfirmed report that he "was on the verge of death"
    I was going to say I was happy he died, but then I wasn't sure if it were true, or if he actually murdered people. Some of the sources I read didn't indicate he was a murderer, but it's probable.

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    Re: Chavez's cancer has 'entered the end stage'

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    You already know the answer to this question we have already discussed this quite a while ago.




    You are allowed to own a shotgun in Cuba however.


    Right to keep and bear arms - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



    No im stating neither do you know why they have a somewhat strict gun control...


    I never stated that. Dont make up **** and try to put words in my mouth. I claimed that you are allowed to own firearms in Cuba (which you are).


    It is


    No you showed me that they have gun laws. Just because you have gun laws that restrict some firearms does not mean you are not allowed to own guns. You are allowed to own guns in cuba. Handguns and shotguns. You have to go through a process but you are allowed to own firearms.


    Has nothing to do with guns in Cuba

    Has nothing to do with this subject


    Has nothing to do with this subject.
    Can we try to stay on subject here FreedomFromAll?
    "When no other recourse is possible, all citizens have the right to struggle through all means, including armed struggle, against anyone who tries to overthrow the political, social and economic order established in this Constitution." Armed struggle is only allowed if you are fighting for the constitution and its government. And even in that event they sound reluctant to let citizens be armed. And sure you are allowed to own guns lol what you are missing is that it was not the will of the people who decided that the government gets to decide whether you can own a gun or not. You also are not talking about what happens when the government denies you the right to own a gun. AT that point you have no democratic avenue to take because its not a democracy its an dictatorship.


    You cant just use the excuse that we do not know why owning guns in Cuba is heavily restricted by the government, not when historically we have a pretty good idea. And lets not gloss over the fact that Chavez decided that no civilian can own a firearm not even for hunting. All this makes Cuba and Venezuela a very bad example of Democratic Socialism. Which has been my point all along. All that I can assume since you have demonstrated over and over that you believe that Cuba and Venezuela are great models of Democratic Socialism is that those are the types of Socialism that you want. And as I have said and as others have said not over my dead body will I ever allow Democratic Socialism to take over America. Which was my other point that Democratic Socialism can never work since you would need to force it on a large part of any population in any country on Earth. And the only thing that is the result of gun controls is the eventual disarmament of the population. And if you know anything about America our Constitution our history you would understand that a healthy country can only survive as an armed country, its the only way to keep our Representatives truly in check.
    Last edited by FreedomFromAll; 06-13-12 at 05:59 PM.

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    Re: Chavez's cancer has 'entered the end stage'

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    "When no other recourse is possible, all citizens have the right to struggle through all means, including armed struggle, against anyone who tries to overthrow the political, social and economic order established in this Constitution." Armed struggle is only allowed if you are fighting for the constitution and its government.
    Uhhhh... Ok...
    Except Fidel and the July 26 movement didnt think so at one time...
    This isnt about Cuba also. If you wanna debate about Cuba we should take this somewhere else and try to stay on topic..

    And even in that event they sound reluctant to let citizens be armed. And sure you are allowed to own guns lol what you are missing is that it was not the will of the people who decided that the government gets to decide whether you can own a gun or not.
    The constitution wasn't approved "by the people"? Neither was ours technically...
    They allowed their elected officials approve of the constitution.


    You also are not talking about what happens when the government denies you the right to own a gun. AT that point you have no democratic avenue to take because its not a democracy its an dictatorship.
    Well we really dont know the denial rates in Cuba to own a firearm.



    You cant just use the excuse that we do not know why owning guns in Cuba is heavily restricted by the government, not when historically we have a pretty good idea.
    Really we have a "historically good idea"?
    1.)They are not a wealthy country (embargo to blame) so maybe civilian owning of firearms is not a huge deal to them
    2.)Many countries have strict gun laws, is it so that they are worried that the people are going to overthrow the gov? Like France, GB, European countries? Plus you think if they really wanted to overthrow the gov do you think they are going to follow gun laws? I mean look at the IRA, revolutions going all throughout ME.

    And lets not gloss over the fact that Chavez decided that no civilian can own a firearm not even for hunting.
    Not true. Allowed to own .22 and Shotguns.

    All this makes Cuba and Venezuela a very bad example of Democratic Socialism.
    Why because they dont believe that everyone should own a gun?
    Im sorry but not everyone is gunho heavy throughout the world.
    Plus your making this a huge deal over really not that big of a deal. They just have a different gun policy than us.. Get over it.

    Which has been my point all along.
    Your big problem with Chavez now is that they have a different gun law than us?

    All that I can assume since you have demonstrated over and over that you believe that Cuba and Venezuela are great models of Democratic Socialism is that those are the types of Socialism that you want.
    I never claimed that Cuba was a great example

    And as I have said and as others have said not over my dead body will I ever allow Democratic Socialism to take over America.
    Cool beans. Apparently you dont agree with the elctorial process in the USA if by some chance democratic socialism takes root in America in our lifetime you better get your guns ready i guess

    Which was my other point that Democratic Socialism can never work since you would need to force it on a large part of any population in any country on Earth.
    Cool beans.
    You need to learn the theory of a long distance runner

    And the only thing that is the result of gun controls is the eventual disarmament of the population. And if you know anything about America our Constitution our history you would understand that a healthy country can only survive as an armed country, its the only way to keep our Representatives truly in check.
    Sure.
    So we went from Chavez = murderer. Then to jail riots=Chavez fault. Then to Chavez taking guns=bad. Then to Chavez=dictator. Then to Cuba. Now back to Chavez sucks because he is making strict gun laws to try to get the crime rate down=bad because thats bad.


    Also if you would like to debate Cuba and their polical process please move to another thread and let me know by PM and i will gladly join ya


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    Re: Chavez's cancer has 'entered the end stage'

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Uhhhh... Ok...
    Except Fidel and the July 26 movement didnt think so at one time...
    This isnt about Cuba also. If you wanna debate about Cuba we should take this somewhere else and try to stay on topic..
    Venezuela and Cuba are intertwined as it is. Hugo Chavez is not shy about letting it be known that Castro is like a father to him.


    The constitution wasn't approved "by the people"? Neither was ours technically...
    They allowed their elected officials approve of the constitution.
    No matter who approved it still is the Government dictating to the people on what should be basic rights.



    Well we really dont know the denial rates in Cuba to own a firearm.
    Sure we do all we need to do is look at the results.




    Really we have a "historically good idea"?
    1.)They are not a wealthy country (embargo to blame) so maybe civilian owning of firearms is not a huge deal to them
    2.)Many countries have strict gun laws, is it so that they are worried that the people are going to overthrow the gov? Like France, GB, European countries? Plus you think if they really wanted to overthrow the gov do you think they are going to follow gun laws? I mean look at the IRA, revolutions going all throughout ME.
    yes we have a historically good idea see pre WW2 Germany.

    Not true. Allowed to own .22 and Shotguns.
    the current law on firearms in Cuba was a decree (Decree-Law 262 on firearms and ammunition). Now owning such things as a .22 rifle or shotgun is extremely difficult. Hence why the number of owners is so low in the Cuba only 1500 and some change rifles are owned by private citizens. Shotguns are about 43,000 owned but with a population of over a 11 million its a drop in the bucket. But at moments notice all of these firearms can be taken away in Cuba. All it takes is another decree law and they have all of the addresses on hand. WHich is how Hugo is able to disarm the population of Venezuela by making everyone register first then just showing up to retrieve the weapons.


    Why because they dont believe that everyone should own a gun?
    Im sorry but not everyone is gunho heavy throughout the world.
    Plus your making this a huge deal over really not that big of a deal. They just have a different gun policy than us.. Get over it.
    It the right to own a gun that maters as all rights matter.

    Your big problem with Chavez now is that they have a different gun law than us?
    Hugo Chavez did not ask the people if they wanted their guns taken away.


    I never claimed that Cuba was a great example
    Is Venezuela a great example of Democratic Socialism?


    Cool beans. Apparently you dont agree with the elctorial process in the USA if by some chance democratic socialism takes root in America in our lifetime you better get your guns ready i guess


    Cool beans.
    You need to learn the theory of a long distance runner
    Yes I am aware of Leftist tactics. The use of propaganda the lies told to children to use them for eventual supremacy. Doesnt sound like a sustainable venture though.


    Sure.
    So we went from Chavez = murderer. Then to jail riots=Chavez fault. Then to Chavez taking guns=bad. Then to Chavez=dictator. Then to Cuba. Now back to Chavez sucks because he is making strict gun laws to try to get the crime rate down=bad because thats bad.
    Chavez = dictator pretty much covers all of it.


    Also if you would like to debate Cuba and their polical process please move to another thread and let me know by PM and i will gladly join ya
    Cuban policy is simply "Do what the Castros want" there really is anything to debate in a dictatorship.

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