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Thread: Chavez's cancer has 'entered the end stage'

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    Re: Chavez's cancer has 'entered the end stage'

    Quote Originally Posted by Van Basten View Post
    Another one bites the dust.

    Now, who's the next troublesome politician to die?

    .....Castro?
    Would we give a rat's ass about Chavez's health if Venezuela didn't have the same attraction as Iraq, Libya, Iran, Syria? It is about OIL and the USA corporations who want to control the distribution of the OIL. Corruption in Venezuela! Yes, much improved since Chavez has been in charge. Traded oil to Cuba for Doctors and healthcare. Chavez has helped the poor in Venezuela at the expense of the very wealthy that still control a great deal of the media in the Country. Someone referenced the OAS and indeed it is a toady of the USA and the CIA. I think they even endorsed the overthrow of Zelaya in Honduras. Jus' bidness, takin' care o' de' plantation.

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    Re: Chavez's cancer has 'entered the end stage'

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    Would we give a rat's ass about Chavez's health if Venezuela didn't have the same attraction as Iraq, Libya, Iran, Syria? It is about OIL and the USA corporations who want to control the distribution of the OIL. Corruption in Venezuela! Yes, much improved since Chavez has been in charge. Traded oil to Cuba for Doctors and healthcare. Chavez has helped the poor in Venezuela at the expense of the very wealthy that still control a great deal of the media in the Country. Someone referenced the OAS and indeed it is a toady of the USA and the CIA. I think they even endorsed the overthrow of Zelaya in Honduras. Jus' bidness, takin' care o' de' plantation.
    there is another aspect that is important not to disregard
    like castro and ahmadinejad and kim jong-il, chavez refused to genuflect in the face of American power (and intent)
    that shows other nations and their people that it can actually be done without the contrarian leader then being deposed by the CIA
    which must be disturbing to those who seek to continue our domineering and imperialistic ways
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: Chavez's cancer has 'entered the end stage'

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    Hugo Chavez has been president since 1998, this we all know. We are all also aware that it is now the year 2012. less than a Month ago there was another prison riot. The cause was basically the same as the one that was in that video. Venezuela is raking billions in oil money why cant they pull every citizen out of poverty? Why must prisons be over populated to an extreme where it is inhumane to treat people in such a foul way? Why is that Chavez can travel to Cuba for cancer treatment while his people rot in prisons and on the streets?


    Seriously how come there is some much corruption in Venezuela STILL? Hugo Chavez even ruled by decree and was unable to stop his country from having poverty and run away corruption? What exactly has Chavez achieved with his brand of Socialism in the 14 years that he has ruled?
    Perhaps a dictatorship is not the best form of government after all.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: Chavez's cancer has 'entered the end stage'

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    Would we give a rat's ass about Chavez's health if Venezuela didn't have the same attraction as Iraq, Libya, Iran, Syria? It is about OIL and the USA corporations who want to control the distribution of the OIL. Corruption in Venezuela! Yes, much improved since Chavez has been in charge. Traded oil to Cuba for Doctors and healthcare. Chavez has helped the poor in Venezuela at the expense of the very wealthy that still control a great deal of the media in the Country. Someone referenced the OAS and indeed it is a toady of the USA and the CIA. I think they even endorsed the overthrow of Zelaya in Honduras. Jus' bidness, takin' care o' de' plantation.
    Yea because Cuba has tons of oil right?

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    Re: Chavez's cancer has 'entered the end stage'

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    Yea because Cuba has tons of oil right?
    Actually it does, but oil wasn't a factor when Fidel took over so I get your point.
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    Re: Chavez's cancer has 'entered the end stage'

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    Yea because Cuba has tons of oil right?
    If it had enough oil, Castro would have been hung back in the '60s.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: Chavez's cancer has 'entered the end stage'

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    Hugo Chavez has been president since 1998, this we all know.
    Yes i know.
    So what?

    We are all also aware that it is now the year 2012.
    Yea.
    So what?
    less than a Month ago there was another prison riot.
    Yes.
    And this is Chavez's fault how?

    The cause was basically the same as the one that was in that video.
    What guns in the prison, gangs?
    Behind the Venezuelan Prison Riots: the State of Venezuela
    Read this if you wanna a perspective about the prison problem in Venezuela.

    Venezuela is raking billions in oil money why cant they pull every citizen out of poverty?

    Why cant Saudia Arabia? Why cant Iraq? Why cant Canada? Why cant any oil rich country? Are you kidding me? You think if Venezuela dropped all social services, all gov payments to employees, and all other projects and assests working on and just threw all that money to the poor and wave some speical magic wand that everyone will jsut magically be pulled out of poverty? You think that is how government works and that the Venezuela gov has some magic anti poverty wand?
    Dear god....
    Can we be please realistic here? Or is this just a desperate attempt at some bull****?

    Why must prisons be over populated to an extreme where it is inhumane to treat people in such a foul way?
    Again: Behind the Venezuelan Prison Riots: the State of Venezuela

    Why is that Chavez can travel to Cuba for cancer treatment
    Because he was welcomed there.

    while his people rot in prisons and on the streets?
    Yep everyone is rotting on the streets now in Venezuela. Everyone is dying on the streets from hunger and this awful country ran by this awful man right?
    See report: http://www.cepr.net/documents/public...la-2009-02.pdf



    Seriously how come there is some much corruption in Venezuela STILL?
    True Venezuela has historically been a very corrupt country. But corruption has gone down since the early 2000's (drastically).
    Also in late 2009 Chavez initiated a very hard lined anti corrtuption campaign

    Hugo Chavez even ruled by decree and was unable to stop his country from having poverty and run away corruption?
    Dear god someone doesnt understand how rule of decree is gained in Venezuela and the exact power behind the rule of decree..
    And again more of this unerealists bull****. \


    What exactly has Chavez achieved with his brand of Socialism in the 14 years that he has ruled?
    See report: http://www.cepr.net/documents/public...la-2009-02.pdf
    "
    • The current economic expansion began when the government got control over the national oil company in the first quarter of 2003. Since then, real (inflationadjusted) GDP has nearly doubled, growing by 94.7 percent in 5.25 years, or 13.5 percent annually.
    • Most of this growth has been in the nonoil sector of the economy, and the private sector has grown faster than the public sector.
    • During the current economic expansion, the poverty rate has been cut by more than half, from 54 percent of households in the first half of 2003 to 26 percent at the end of 2008. Extreme poverty has fallen even more, by 72 percent. These poverty rates measure only cash income, and does take into account increased access to health care or education.
    • Over the entire decade, the percentage of households in poverty has been reduced by 39 percent, and extreme poverty by more than half.
    • Inequality, as measured by the Gini index, has also fallen substantially. The index has fallen to 41 in 2008, from 48.1 in 2003 and 47 in 1999. This represents a large reduction in inequality.
    • Real (inflationadjusted) social spending per person more than tripled from 1998-2006.
    • From 1998-2006, infant mortality has fallen by more than onethird. The number of primary care physicians in the public sector increased 12fold from 1999-2007, providing health care to millions of Venezuelans who previously did not have access.
    • There have been substantial gains in education, especially higher education, where gross enrollment rates more than doubled from 1999/2000 to 2007/2008.
    • The labor market also improved substantially over the last decade, with unemployment dropping from 11.3 percent to 7.8 percent. During the current expansion it has fallen by more than half. Other labor market indicators also show substantial gains.
    • Over the past decade, the number of social security beneficiaries has more than doubled.
    • Over the decade, the government's total public debt has fallen from 30.7 to 14.3 percent of GDP. The foreign public debt has fallen even more, from 25.6 to 9.8 percent of GDP.
    • Inflation is about where it was 10 years ago, ending the year at 31.4 percent. However it has been falling over the last half year (as measured by threemonth averages) and is likely to continue declining this year in the face of strong deflationary pressures worldwide."


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    Re: Chavez's cancer has 'entered the end stage'

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Yes i know.
    So what?


    Yea.
    So what?

    Yes.
    And this is Chavez's fault how?
    Yes it is his watch and has been for over a decade. How many damn decades and rule by decree does a administration need to correct what should have been the priority?


    What guns in the prison, gangs?
    Behind the Venezuelan Prison Riots: the State of Venezuela
    Read this if you wanna a perspective about the prison problem in Venezuela.
    Yes Valenzuela state ran version of Foxnews will say anything that Chavez wants.



    Why cant Saudia Arabia? Why cant Iraq? Why cant Canada? Why cant any oil rich country? Are you kidding me? You think if Venezuela dropped all social services, all gov payments to employees, and all other projects and assests working on and just threw all that money to the poor and wave some speical magic wand that everyone will jsut magically be pulled out of poverty? You think that is how government works and that the Venezuela gov has some magic anti poverty wand?
    Dear god....
    Can we be please realistic here? Or is this just a desperate attempt at some bull****
    ? The government of Hugo Chavez has won more elections than nearly any other government in the world as a result of social policies to drastically reduce poverty and inequality by sharing the nation's oil wealth.Venezuela & the New Latin America: Socialism in the 21st Century | venezuelanalysis.com


    Again: Behind the Venezuelan Prison Riots: the State of Venezuela


    Because he was welcomed there.
    Yes welcomed while his citizens cannot afford such luxuries.


    Yep everyone is rotting on the streets now in Venezuela. Everyone is dying on the streets from hunger and this awful country ran by this awful man right?
    See report: http://www.cepr.net/documents/public...la-2009-02.pdf
    Yes I read that report a couple years ago. Here is something more recent Venezuelan Economy Grows But Rentier Model Deepens - Economia - El Universal The problem with a deepening rentier model lies on its unfeasibility. The number of exported barrels of oil has remained steady. In the meantime, the population grows and oil rising prices are not enough to get back to the wealth of the seventies.

    The Venezuelan State is incapable of reducing poverty in a sustained manner through public service. Furthermore, a rentier scheme plus a confrontational stance with the private sector has resulted in few investments, insufficient jobs and low payment.

    Had it not been for five and a half million underemployed Venezuelans, the unemployment rate would be outrageously at 51%.

    In an attempt at offsetting an unfeasible oil income, President Hugo Chávez s administration quickly gets into more and more debt and fails to save a portion of the petrodollars, thus compromising the future.



    True Venezuela has historically been a very corrupt country. But corruption has gone down since the early 2000's (drastically).
    Also in late 2009 Chavez initiated a very hard lined anti corrtuption campaign


    Dear god someone doesnt understand how rule of decree is gained in Venezuela and the exact power behind the rule of decree..
    And again more of this unerealists bull****. \
    says a report by the private intelligence firm Stratfor released by WikiLeaks.
    [...]
    Coruption has not gone down dramatically. “The country’s distorting and unsustainable currency exchange system is not only pushing more and more segments of the economy to the black market (which leads to a bigger inflation and the scarcity of basic products) but it also serves as a catalyzing agent for a broad money laundering scheme that seems to be going out of control and therefore weakening the government’s control of power,” the report said.

    Read more here: WikiLeaks: Corruption stifling Venezuelan production in favor of imports | McClatchy[/COLOR][/I]

    It was the out going legislators in Chavez's own party that gave him the power to rule by decree. Which Chavez used to nationalize much of the economy and to enact laws that benefit his political party. And he neutered the judicial system. generally he acted like a dictator while his people remained without proper employment and lacked clean drinking water in places. In fact the infrastructure is still crippled in much of the country. People are starving prisons are filling up yet again.


    See report: http://www.cepr.net/documents/public...la-2009-02.pdf
    "
    • The current economic expansion began when the government got control over the national oil company in the first quarter of 2003. Since then, real (inflationadjusted) GDP has nearly doubled, growing by 94.7 percent in 5.25 years, or 13.5 percent annually.
    • Most of this growth has been in the nonoil sector of the economy, and the private sector has grown faster than the public sector.
    • During the current economic expansion, the poverty rate has been cut by more than half, from 54 percent of households in the first half of 2003 to 26 percent at the end of 2008. Extreme poverty has fallen even more, by 72 percent. These poverty rates measure only cash income, and does take into account increased access to health care or education.
    • Over the entire decade, the percentage of households in poverty has been reduced by 39 percent, and extreme poverty by more than half.
    • Inequality, as measured by the Gini index, has also fallen substantially. The index has fallen to 41 in 2008, from 48.1 in 2003 and 47 in 1999. This represents a large reduction in inequality.
    • Real (inflationadjusted) social spending per person more than tripled from 1998-2006.
    • From 1998-2006, infant mortality has fallen by more than onethird. The number of primary care physicians in the public sector increased 12fold from 1999-2007, providing health care to millions of Venezuelans who previously did not have access.
    • There have been substantial gains in education, especially higher education, where gross enrollment rates more than doubled from 1999/2000 to 2007/2008.
    • The labor market also improved substantially over the last decade, with unemployment dropping from 11.3 percent to 7.8 percent. During the current expansion it has fallen by more than half. Other labor market indicators also show substantial gains.
    • Over the past decade, the number of social security beneficiaries has more than doubled.
    • Over the decade, the government's total public debt has fallen from 30.7 to 14.3 percent of GDP. The foreign public debt has fallen even more, from 25.6 to 9.8 percent of GDP.
    • Inflation is about where it was 10 years ago, ending the year at 31.4 percent. However it has been falling over the last half year (as measured by threemonth averages) and is likely to continue declining this year in the face of strong deflationary pressures worldwide."
    One would hope that a country with so much oil can progress economically. But then: VENEZUELA: Poverty Stats Also Politicised - IPS ipsnews.net Nearly halfway to the 2015 deadline for the Millennium Development Goals (MDGs), the Economic Commission for Latin America and the Caribbean (ECLAC) has pointed to widely varying statistical gathering capacity in the region and discrepancies in indicators for measuring progress or setbacks in countries in the region.

    According to ECLAC, the poverty rate in Venezuela has dropped 12 percent since Chávez first took office in 1999, when 49 percent of the population lived below the poverty line and 21 percent suffered extreme poverty.


    And this:Another six countries would continue to reduce the incidence of extreme poverty, but at too slow a pace. These countries are Brazil, Costa Rica, El Salvador, Guatemala, Mexico and Nicaragua. The other five countries ?Bolivia, Ecuador, Paraguay, Peru and Venezuela? would actually see higher levels of extreme poverty due either to increases in inequality, decreases in per capita income, or both. CEPAL - Meeting the Millennium Poverty Reduction Targets in Latin America and the Caribbean

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    Re: Chavez's cancer has 'entered the end stage'

    Interesting, but anonymous sources do not impress me.

    Maybe he is close to death, maybe he is not...but I will assume little until I see facts or people on the record.

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    Re: Chavez's cancer has 'entered the end stage'

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    Yes it is his watch and has been for over a decade. How many damn decades and rule by decree does a administration need to correct what should have been the priority?
    Prisons were not the priority of Venezuela. The priority of Venezuela is still poverty, and crime on the streets.
    And plus his whole rule he has not had the "power to rule by decree". He has only had 2 or 3 times for several months at a time. The longest he has had it in one time was for 18 months in 2007.


    Yes Valenzuela state ran version of Foxnews will say anything that Chavez wants.
    Of course who would thought you just play it off and actually not cite any sources within the article or the detail of the article..



    ? The government of Hugo Chavez has won more elections than nearly any other government in the world as a result of social policies to drastically reduce poverty and inequality by sharing the nation's oil wealth.Venezuela & the New Latin America: Socialism in the 21st Century | venezuelanalysis.com
    Cool.
    Whats your point? Initiating a popular policy and continuing with the policy of taking oil revenue and helping the poor..
    Funny also how you just play off the Venezuela Analysis then you use the exact same post... Hypocritical dont you think?


    Yes welcomed while his citizens cannot afford such luxuries.
    They have socialized medicine in Venezuela as well..
    The reason the population was given why Chavez went to Cuba for cancer treatment was because, while he was on a trip to Cuba, that is where he found out he had cancer, and they advised him to keep on coming back to see the same team of medical professionals.



    Yes I read that report a couple years ago. Here is something more recent Venezuelan Economy Grows But Rentier Model Deepens - Economia - El Universal The problem with a deepening rentier model lies on its unfeasibility. The number of exported barrels of oil has remained steady. In the meantime, the population grows and oil rising prices are not enough to get back to the wealth of the seventies.

    The Venezuelan State is incapable of reducing poverty in a sustained manner through public service. Furthermore, a rentier scheme plus a confrontational stance with the private sector has resulted in few investments, insufficient jobs and low payment.

    Had it not been for five and a half million underemployed Venezuelans, the unemployment rate would be outrageously at 51%.

    In an attempt at offsetting an unfeasible oil income, President Hugo Chávez s administration quickly gets into more and more debt and fails to save a portion of the petrodollars, thus compromising the future.
    Respectably that doesnt seem much of a long term analysis overall... Seems like a quick piece written in a newspaper. (Wait i thougth Chavez censored all dissent in Venezuela? ) It seems to only focus on the problems the oil area of the economy.Then it states that they want to go back to the seventies? But how did Venezuela do so well in the seventies? Through strong public programs, the oil sector. Then it goes and dismisses public employees as not a way to advance the economy?


    says a report by the private intelligence firm Stratfor released by WikiLeaks.
    [...]
    Coruption has not gone down dramatically. “The country’s distorting and unsustainable currency exchange system is not only pushing more and more segments of the economy to the black market (which leads to a bigger inflation and the scarcity of basic products) but it also serves as a catalyzing agent for a broad money laundering scheme that seems to be going out of control and therefore weakening the government’s control of power,” the report said.

    Read more here: WikiLeaks: Corruption stifling Venezuelan production in favor of imports | McClatchy[/COLOR][/I]
    [/QUOTE]
    One incident on rotten food in a harbor makes it "corrupt" because of a incident of government mismanagement?
    How about these incidents?
    Venezuela Combats Crisis by Fighting Corruption, Bureaucracy | venezuelanalysis.com
    Venezuelan Immigration and ID Organisation Combating State Corruption | venezuelanalysis.com
    Pro Chavez officials being arrested and charged for corrupt issues: Pro- and Anti-Chavez Public Servants Disqualified for Acts of Corruption in Venezuela | venezuelanalysis.com (that damn evil dictator arresting his own officials)


    It was the out going legislators in Chavez's own party that gave him the power to rule by decree.
    Which time?
    Which year?

    Which Chavez used to nationalize much of the economy and to enact laws that benefit his political party. And he neutered the judicial system. generally he acted like a dictator while his people remained without proper employment and lacked clean drinking water in places. In fact the infrastructure is still crippled in much of the country.
    In 2007 he was given the power to rule by decree for 18 months. The powers he was given are to give the exec brance more leeway to establish laws to reorganize the tax structure, and public transportation. This rule by decree must be passed by the National Assembly, and is allowed under the constitution. Chavez is not the first president of Venezuela to use this power either. Carlos Andres Perez was given the right (and he was a great ally to the US government, not outrage there), Jamie Lusinchim, and Ramon Jose Velasquez. This is when no body cared about Venezuela at the time because they were just being good little people in Venezuela allowing corporate powers do whatever the **** they wanted in Venezuela. But then comes big bad Chavez nationalizing sectors of the economy, and giving the revenue to the people and establishing social programs. Awwhhh the outrage!
    Anyways back to the rule by decree in 2007. He was given it for 18 months, and can pass laws in several areas the ones stated earlier plus, in areas at corruption, increasing gov efficiency, and social services to the poor. Also what should be noted that any of the laws passed under the decree can be modified or scrathced by the national assembly at any time and the population of Venezuela has the power to nullify any of these laws through a referendum.
    Instead of viewing the radical social changed going on in Venezuela just because they do not fit the neo-liberal model that is "so popular" by the World Bank to reform a country Chavez and the people of Venezuela has decided to take a different route.

    People are starving prisons are filling up yet again.
    Yep you have a source on people starving in prisons? Just like people dying in the street claim, by you? Never saw a source on that either.


    One would hope that a country with so much oil can progress economically. But then: VENEZUELA: Poverty Stats Also Politicised - IPS ipsnews.net Nearly halfway to the 2015 deadline for the Millennium Development Goals (MDGs), the Economic Commission for Latin America and the Caribbean (ECLAC) has pointed to widely varying statistical gathering capacity in the region and discrepancies in indicators for measuring progress or setbacks in countries in the region.

    According to ECLAC, the poverty rate in Venezuela has dropped 12 percent since Chávez first took office in 1999, when 49 percent of the population lived below the poverty line and 21 percent suffered extreme poverty.
    ???
    Also from 2006...

    And this:Another six countries would continue to reduce the incidence of extreme poverty, but at too slow a pace. These countries are Brazil, Costa Rica, El Salvador, Guatemala, Mexico and Nicaragua. The other five countries ?Bolivia, Ecuador, Paraguay, Peru and Venezuela? would actually see higher levels of extreme poverty due either to increases in inequality, decreases in per capita income, or both. CEPAL - Meeting the Millennium Poverty Reduction Targets in Latin America and the Caribbean
    See date.....2002.
    More updated report (the most independent NGO report) has been linked
    "During the current economic expansion, the poverty rate has been cut by more than half, from 54 percent of households in the first half of 2003 to 26 percent at the end of 2008. Extreme poverty has fallen even more, by 72 percent. These poverty rates measure only cash income, and does take into account increased access to health care or education."
    "
    Over the entire decade, the percentage of households in poverty has been reduced by 39 percent, and extreme poverty by more than half."

    Please if your going to try to prove a point dont use sources that are 10+years old...


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