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Thread: Chavez's cancer has 'entered the end stage'

  1. #131
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    Re: Chavez's cancer has 'entered the end stage'

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggen View Post
    Nah, they'll stuff him and put him in a glass case like the soviets did with Lenin. He'll continue to 'lead'.
    some leaders really never die.they are unforgettable..
    "Sovereignty is not given, it is taken." ATATÜRK

  2. #132
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    Re: Chavez's cancer has 'entered the end stage'

    Quote Originally Posted by Connery View Post
    Things are not always as balanced and fair they appear, for example, the result of the referendum to recall Chavez whose numbers some believe were skewed and a fraud* was committed. This led to an abysmal existence for those who believed Chavez and his promises.
    Actually the 2004 referendum was actually stated to be fair. The OAS and the Carter Center who were the 2 main groups monitoring the elections at the time reported them to be free and fair.

    "
    After the Electoral Counsel stated Chavez won decisively, his opponents were quick to claim fraud, citing no evidence other than the internalized belief that it was impossible for Chávez to have such support. Such claims kept the recall from simmering into the second day, though they were eventually dismissed as the electoral observers, including Jimmy Carter and OAS leader Cesar Gaveria deemed the results to be fair. The fervently anti-Chávez bloggster and former NY Times reporter Francisco Toro put it as such on the day after the results.

    But it looks very much to me like the government won fair and square. If it didn't, it'll come out in the paper-trail audit, which CNE's Jorge Rodriguez has already agreed to.
    The audit option, which would manually recount the paper ballots that each individual put into the ballot box, thus dismissing any myth of computer fraud, was rejected the next day by the same opposition leaders who cried so hard to make sure they get one."
    The Implications and Explanation of Venezuela's Recall Election. | the narcosphere
    The Repeatedly Re-Elected Autocrat





    See posts 49, 37.
    Ehhh whats the problem here?


  3. #133
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    Re: Chavez's cancer has 'entered the end stage'

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    Venezuela Rejects U.S. Democrat The OAS was the group that most use as their argument that the elections were fair. Now though they are back to villonizing the OAS, “It both worries and terrorises me at the same time this offer to send a “robust mission” to my country,” responded Chaderton, who added that he would alert the Venezuela’s Ministry of Defence to Engel’s comments." Obviously they do not want monitors this time.
    Uhh how did they "villonize the OAS"? They villionized this guy who called Venezuela a dictatorship. Why would they allow a country back into their country after the US supported a coup against Chavez?
    Plus numerous other NGO's and monitors have called the elections fair.
    http://democracychange.com/2011%20FD...0Venezuela.pdf
    https://nacla.org/node/5741
    Venezuela Ranked Number One in Electoral Fairness by Foundation for Democratic Advancement | venezuelanalysis.com
    Venezuelan Elections Show Democracy at Work | Common Dreams

    Leopoldo López played a key role in the coup against Chavez. I wonder how we would treat people if they played a key role in a coup in the US? He also took illegal political contributions, and illegally accepting money from his employer. Strict anti corruption laws disallow him from running for office till 2014.

    "Participants also questioned whether the National Electoral Council would invite international observers to monitor next year’s elections. Lucena stated that the Venezuelan system only admits what they define as “accompaniment,” arguing that “we call upon people that we consider to have the credentials to observe the process, and we invite them.” She noted that Venezuela stopped inviting the Organization of American States and the Carter Center after 2006. Lucena compared Venezuela to Argentina, which has also rejected election observers.

    Well anyone can deny people from monitoring elections.
    They dont deny all electoral observers, and plus why would they allow any US media outlet or observers who reaptily just play into the BS of "he is a dictator" when clearly other organizations, have called the elections fair?
    As stated above

    Participants also commented that high-ranking military officials have recently stated that they would not recognize the results of the elections if the opposition won.
    Cool.
    Its like me saying i dont recognize Bush as my president but guess who has the power. Bush. If the president doenst like those generals well he is commander in chief so to bad.

    Lucena responded that the armed forces have always expressed that they are “subordinate to the National Electoral Council” and praised their cooperation in past elections. However, she did not clarify whether the National Electoral Council would condemn the statements.
    Whats the problem here?
    Sounds like politics...


    Venezuela only invites monitors that the deem useful, they do not allow just anyone to monitor the elections.
    Neither does any country.
    So this is some sort of NGO electorial observer conspiracy? I mean for christ sake the Carter Center has been invited to past elections and called the fair.

    Now I wonder why they wont just let anyone monitor their elections? Could this be part of why Venezuelans do not have much faith in the National Electoral Council?
    Uhh why would they not have faith? They voted on its creation in 1999....
    Not see where you are going with this...

    Venezuela Elections: Jennifer McCoy Gives Insider's Account to The Economist In conclusion, the vote itself was secret and free, but the CNE's lack of openness, last-minute changes and internal divisions harmed public confidence in that vital institution both before and after the vote. Divisive rhetoric and intimidating tactics from Chavistas, and the opposition's still-unsubstantiated claims of fraud, have exacerbated Venezuelans' cynicism toward elections. It will take a huge effort by both sides to restore trust in this fundamental democratic right before next month's election for governors and mayors.
    "In conclusion, the vote itself was secret and free,"
    Thanks for agreeing with me.

    Most people consider the HRW as a Left leaning organisation. Just about all Rightwingers will attack anything to do with the HRW
    Uhh they actually have been criticized for many things. It is very clearly influenced by US government policy.

    World Report 2012: Venezuela | Human Rights Watch

    "Events of 2011

    DOWNLOADABLE RESOURCES:
    World Report Chapter: Venezuela (2012)
    The weakening of Venezuela’s democratic system of checks and balances under President Hugo Chávez has contributed to a precarious human rights situation. Without judicial checks on its actions, the government has systematically undermined the right to free expression, workers’ freedom of association, and the ability of human rights groups to protect rights.

    Weeks before the new National Assembly—with a substantial opposition composition—took office in January 2011, Chávez’s supporters in the legislature adopted several laws that increased the government’s ability to undercut rights.

    Police abuses and impunity remain a grave problem. Prison conditions are deplorable, and fatality rates high due to inmate violence."

    [...]Judicial Independence

    In 2004 Chávez and his legislative allies conducted a political takeover of the Supreme Court, filling it with government supporters and creating new measures that make it possible to purge justices from the court. In December 2010 the outgoing legislators from Chávez’s political party modified the timeline so they could make appointments before leaving office: they appointed 9 permanent justices and 32 stand-ins, including several allies. Since 2004, the court has largely abdicated its role as a check on executive power, failing to protect fundamental rights enshrined in the constitution.

    {..]Legislating by Decree

    In December 2010 the outgoing National Assembly passed an enabling law that granted Chávez broad powers to legislate by decree on a wide range of issues for 18 months. The law’s vague provisions could directly impact the exercise of rights by, for example, allowing the president to determine which penalties can be imposed when someone commits a crime. As of November 2011 Chávez had adopted over 20 legislative decrees, including one reinstating crimes previously derogated by the legislature. The Supreme Court upheld the constitutionality of this decree, which criminalized several banking practices, arguing that economic crimes are “crimes against humanity” and could not be decriminalized.

    [..]Freedom of Media

    Venezuela enjoys a vibrant public debate in which anti-government and pro-government media criticize and defend the president. However, the government has discriminated against media that air political opponents’ views, strengthened the state’s ability to limit free speech and created powerful incentives for government critics to self-censor.

    [..]Prosecuting Government Critics

    Several prominent critics of Chávez’s government have been targeted for criminal prosecution in recent years. The courts’ lack of independence reduced the chances of them receiving a fair trial.

    [..]Human Rights Defenders

    Chávez’s government has aggressively sought to discredit human rights defenders. In June Justice Minister Tarek El Aissami accused Humberto Prado of the Venezuelan Observatory of Prisons of “destabilizing the prison system” and having been “an accomplice in the massacre of inmates” in the past. After several official media outlets discredited Prado, he received multiple death threats and left Venezuela for two months.

    In July 2010 the Supreme Court ruled that “obtaining financial resources, either directly or indirectly, from foreign states with the intent of using them against the Republic, [and] the interest of the people [could constitute] treason.” That same month members of Chávez’s political party filed a criminal complaint with the Attorney General’s Office, alleging that several local human rights NGOs had committed treason by receiving funding from foreign donors. Over 30 NGOs are currently under investigation, according to local media.

    In December 2010 the National Assembly adopted two laws that, if applied to human rights organizations, could severely undermine their ability to work independently. The “Law for the Defense of Political Sovereignty and National Self Determination” blocks NGOS that “defend political rights” or “monitor the performance of public bodies” from receiving international funding. It also imposes stiff fines on organizations that invite foreigners who express opinions that offend institutions or undermine national sovereignty. The “Organic Law on Social Control”—which regulates the work of organizations and individuals that have an impact on “general or collective interests”—states that individuals must follow the law’s socialist principles and values: those who violate the law may face civil, administrative, or criminal sanctions.

    Police Abuses

    Violent crime is rampant in Venezuela, where extrajudicial killings by security agents remain a problem. The minister of the interior and justice has estimated that police commit one of every five crimes. According to the most recent official statistics, law enforcement agents allegedly killed 7,998 people between January 2000 and the first third of 2009.

    [...]Prison Conditions

    Venezuelan prisons are among the most violent in Latin America. Weak security, deteriorating infrastructure, overcrowding, insufficient and poorly trained guards, and corruption allow armed gangs to effectively control prisons. Hundreds of violent prison deaths occur every year. In June 2011, at least 25 people were killed and over 60 seriously injured, including prisoners and National Guard members, after clashes between inmates in the El Rodeo prisons.

    Labor Rights

    The National Electoral Council (CNE), a public authority, has the power to organize and certify all union elections, violating international standards that guarantee workers the right to elect their representatives in full freedom, according to conditions they determine. Established unions whose elections have not been CNE-certified may not participate in collective bargaining.

    For several years the government has promised to reform the relevant labor and electoral laws to restrict state interference in union elections. Reforms that explicitly state that union elections held without CNE participation are legally valid were still pending before the National Assembly at this writing

    Key International Actors

    Venezuela’s government has increasingly rejected international monitoring of its human rights record. In September 2011 the Supreme Court president held that Venezuela will “respect all international agreements only if … international bodies respect [Venezuelan] sovereignty and … jurisdiction.”

    This is in response to reports done on up and coming Latin America democracies and Venezuela
    Scholars Respond to HRW’s Kenneth Roth’s Riposte on Venezuelan Human Rights » Council on Hemispheric Affairs
    Last edited by TheDemSocialist; 06-03-12 at 06:44 PM.


  4. #134
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    Re: Chavez's cancer has 'entered the end stage'

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Uhh how did they "villonize the OAS"? They villionized this guy who called Venezuela a dictatorship. Why would they allow a country back into their country after the US supported a coup against Chavez?
    Plus numerous other NGO's and monitors have called the elections fair.
    http://democracychange.com/2011%20FD...0Venezuela.pdf
    https://nacla.org/node/5741
    Venezuela Ranked Number One in Electoral Fairness by Foundation for Democratic Advancement | venezuelanalysis.com
    Venezuelan Elections Show Democracy at Work | Common Dreams
    So on one hand you consider that Carter and OAS are good source of honest opinion but you turn around and assert that they are puppets of out Government? And id you miss the part where Chávez is only allowing biased observers?


    Leopoldo López played a key role in the coup against Chavez. I wonder how we would treat people if they played a key role in a coup in the US? He also took illegal political contributions, and illegally accepting money from his employer. Strict anti corruption laws disallow him from running for office till 2014.
    Interesting and what would you call it if the military was deployed in the US to stop a crime wave? And what if we named this detail the People's Guard? Would you call this a police state?
    Watch this video. BTW "bichos" means “animals” which is what the so called People's Guard is calling the prisoners. I am pretty sure that mortar fire is not how you are supposed to stop a prison riot. I wonder if this is what Chavez meant by he helped stop the riot?

    Well anyone can deny people from monitoring elections.
    They dont deny all electoral observers, and plus why would they allow any US media outlet or observers who reaptily just play into the BS of "he is a dictator" when clearly other organizations, have called the elections fair?
    As stated above
    But we are not talking about the US now are we?

    Cool.
    Its like me saying i dont recognize Bush as my president but guess who has the power. Bush. If the president doenst like those generals well he is commander in chief so to bad.
    Yea but since it is illegal to own guns in Venezuela now the military have much more power.

    Whats the problem here?
    Sounds like politics...
    LMAO you are so busy splitting hairs that you forgot what the point was of the quote.


    Neither does any country.
    So this is some sort of NGO electorial observer conspiracy? I mean for christ sake the Carter Center has been invited to past elections and called the fair.
    Ah you missed the point of this quote Divisive rhetoric and intimidating tactics from Chavistas, Such tactics show that Chavez is not an angel and should be watched..

    Uhh why would they not have faith? They voted on its creation in 1999....
    Not see where you are going with this...
    If you have nothing to hide why turn away the OAS when they confirmed the elections in the past?


    "In conclusion, the vote itself was secret and free,"
    Thanks for agreeing with me.
    Agree with what? Agree that Chavez is not open to the public? How exactly would this secrecy fit in with a country ran by the people?

    Uhh they actually have been criticized for many things. It is very clearly influenced by US government policy.

    This is in response to reports done on up and coming Latin America democracies and Venezuela
    Scholars Respond to HRW’s Kenneth Roth’s Riposte on Venezuelan Human Rights » Council on Hemispheric Affairs
    The best that you could find is a biased group?


    Here is a interesting letter: "Dear President Chávez,

    I join thousands of people around the world in expressing my profound concern about the deterioration of human rights in Venezuela—especially civil and political rights.

    I wish to register my distress regarding the political prisoners held by your government. Otto Gebauer, Raúl Díaz Peńa, Humberto Quintero, Iván Simonovis, Lázaro Forero, Henry Vivas, and others have been imprisoned despite clear violations of due process, the rule of law, the Venezuelan constitution, and various international treaties to which Venezuela is signatory.

    Mr. President, I respectfully request that you immediately release every Venezuelan political prisoner. Your continued disregard for their fundamental rights undermines not only your democratic credentials but also the Venezuelan state’s commitment to respect human rights.

    I am sending copies of this letter to numerous international organizations and individuals who defend human rights, to foreign governments, and to your colleagues in the Venezuelan government. "

    Tell Chávez: Demand Human Rights of Venezuela's Political Prisoners' Be Respected - Tell Chávez Now

  5. #135
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    Re: Chavez's cancer has 'entered the end stage'

    Quote Originally Posted by Mya View Post
    Cancer is a horrible,horrible thing, I agree on that

    on the other hand... it is also amazing to me the support this man, apparently has, in this thread.
    I guess they support Hugo's shutdown of the free press/freedom of expression...
    Caitlyn Strong...

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    Re: Chavez's cancer has 'entered the end stage'

    Chavez's job is to take care of Venezuelans, not the USA Korporations. He's been doing a good job. Some of the reader's seem to think that USA Korporations are the good guys. Wrong!

  7. #137
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    Re: Chavez's cancer has 'entered the end stage'

    Quote Originally Posted by Awesome! View Post
    I guess they support Hugo's shutdown of the free press/freedom of expression...
    To the people who support the likes of Chavez and Castro and Mugabe and the tin pot in Iran, freedom of the press and freedom of political expression aren't nearly as important as good old out and out anti-americanism and anti-westernism. It just doesn't matter to them, as long as the despot is saying the right things about the U.S.
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  8. #138
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    Re: Chavez's cancer has 'entered the end stage'

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    Chavez's job is to take care of Venezuelans, not the USA Korporations. He's been doing a good job. Some of the reader's seem to think that USA Korporations are the good guys. Wrong!
    No one said anything about Corporations. Personally I really do not care about corporations in other countries at all. Those corporations took a risk and they new it was a risk, plus why cry for a corporation its not like they are a person lol. And why put USA in front of the word corporation? Do you seriously believe that all corporations are American?
    Nationalization - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    You should get your facts straight before going off on other readers:

    2007 On May 1, 2007, Venezuela stripped the world's biggest oil companies of operational control over massive Orinoco Belt crude projects, a controversial component in President Hugo Chavez's nationalization drive. U.S. companies ConocoPhillips, Chevron, Exxon Mobil, Britain's BP, Norway's Statoil and France's Total agreed to obey a decree to transfer operational control on Tuesday, although the OPEC nation complained ConocoPhillips was somewhat resistant. http://archive.newsmax.com/money/arc...5/1/083623.cfm
    2008 On April 3, 2008, President Hugo Chavez ordered the nationalization of the cement industry.[35]Mexico and domestic
    2008 On April 9, 2008, Hugo Chavez ordered the nationalization of Venezuelan steel mill Sidor, in which Luxembourg-based Ternium currently holds a 60% stake. Sidor employees and the Government hold a 20% stake respectively.[36]German
    2008 On August 19, 2008, Hugo Chavez ordered the take-over of a cement plant owned and operated by Cemex, an international cement producer. While shares of Cemex fell on the New York Stock Exchange, the cement plant comprises only about 5% of the company's business, and is not expected to adversely affect the company's ability to produce in other markets. Chavez has been looking to nationalize the concrete and steel industries of his country to meet home building and infrastructure goals.[37]Mexico
    2009 On February 28, 2009, Hugo Chavez ordered the army to take over all rice processing and packaging plants.[38]domestic
    2010 On January 20, 2010, Hugo Chavez signed an ordinance to nationalize six supermarkets in Venezuela under the system of retail stores of a French company because of increasing price and speculation hoarding illicit.[39]France
    2010 On June 24, 2010, Venezuela announced the intention to nationalize oil drilling rigs belonging to the U.S. company Helmerich & Payne.[40]USA
    2010 On October 25, 2010, Chavez announced that the government was nationalizing two U.S.-owned Owens-Illinois glass-manufacturing plants.[41]USA
    2010 On October 31, 2010, Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez said his government will take over the Sidetur steel manufacturing plant. Sidetur is owned by Vivencia, which had two mineral plants appropriated by the government in 2008.[41]
    Domestic

    Plus the media take overs were domestically owned as well. So obviously you are either misinformed or you are trying to be dishonest so which is it?
    Last edited by FreedomFromAll; 06-04-12 at 03:41 PM.

  9. #139
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    Re: Chavez's cancer has 'entered the end stage'

    Just face it Chavez is not a good example of anything except state ran corruption.
    Last edited by FreedomFromAll; 06-04-12 at 03:41 PM.

  10. #140
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    Re: Chavez's cancer has 'entered the end stage'

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    Trot out the same lies, even after they have been proven to be so years ago, and maybe it will stick.

    That seems to be your tactic here.
    Keep brushing off the accusations and see how far that gets you.

    Venezuela - Reporters Without Borders

    This is not to mention the links already brought up about Chavez's political favoritism and authoritarianism.
    "Doubleplusungood"

    George Orwell

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