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Thread: Honor student placed in jail for tardiness and truancy at school

  1. #51
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    Re: Honor student placed in jail for tardiness and truancy at school

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Yeah ... What ever!



    How many hours? She alleges a full time and a part time.
    But we don't know that to be true, you know why?
    Because the story is pretty much absent specifics.




    No... That is what this is all about.
    She should have been going full time but she wasn't.


    Just more hyperbole.


    Wrong.

    If I had been the Judge, I would also have given her a chance the first time.

    And that is what you seem to want to ignore. She had her chance and wasted it.

    And then you want to make a big deal that she got a very lenient 24 hours, to think about her actions in not obeying the courts order.
    And unlike Lohan, Miss Tran most likely will be better for it.

    This crybaby attitude that many people have now-a-days is ridiculous.

    She had her chance, and screwed the pooch. Now it is time for the consequences.
    She is lucky to get off so lightly, and that is most likey because of her astounding record.


    LMFAO
    I care not if you believe me.
    You say you don't know whether she is holding a full time job and a part time job, and yet you are ready to say that she is wrong. Interesting.

    It could be that she has two married parents at home, is working a single, ten hour a week job, isn't an honor student, and just decided to be truant. Could be, ya know!! But in that case, I would disagree with giving even one chance. We can come to all kinds of conclusions if we just make up facts.

    But, with the purported facts as they have been presented, and reported by a second person, she was in a terrible situation.
    You can never be safe from a government that can keep you completely safe from each other and the world. You must choose.

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    Re: Honor student placed in jail for tardiness and truancy at school

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    She wasn't behind in her work. She simply wasn't making it to school, actually attending classes. If she is learning the stuff, and from what is given about her grades, she is, then she is doing her job as far as school is concerned.
    That's what I say. High school was cake. I never took a study hall, had 6 years of science when I graduated, made it through calculus, etc, 4.0 and all that jazz. And I skipped a lot my senior year. There was no point to go to class. If she was not a problem kid, doing well, not committing crimes (like actual crimes, not skipping class....everyone does that) then I say no harm no foul.
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    Re: Honor student placed in jail for tardiness and truancy at school

    Quote Originally Posted by Connery View Post
    You are assuming facts that have not been presented. The judge, the school system and her parents failed Ms. Tran. Ms. Tran has overcome a great deal and I have no doubt she will this time as well. She should have been referred for assistance the first time, but, was not.
    You are.


    Quote Originally Posted by Connery View Post
    I addressed this previously in post 14.
    Actually you did not address that specifically.


    Quote Originally Posted by Connery View Post
    Your "authority" cites that the law does not excuse "honors students" and he is correct, but, that is not the issue whatsoever. The issue is whether Ms. Tran's absences could have been excused by the judge using his discretion and the answer is yes.
    The answer is no.
    Part of it was emboldened by you.
    I will highlight the applicable portion, because apparently you are reading the statute incorrectly.

    Texas Family Code - Section 51.03. Delinquent Conduct; Conduct Indicating A Need For Supervision
    (d) It is an affirmative defense to an allegation of conduct
    under Subsection (b)(2) that one or more of the absences required to
    be proven under that subsection have been excused by a school
    official or by the court or that one or more of the absences were
    involuntary, but only if there is an insufficient number of
    unexcused or voluntary absences remaining to constitute conduct
    under Subsection (b)(2). The burden is on the respondent to show by
    a preponderance of the evidence that the absence has been or should
    be excused or that the absence was involuntary.
    A decision by the
    court to excuse an absence
    for purposes of this subsection does not
    affect the ability of the school district to determine whether to
    excuse the absence for another purpose.


    Quote Originally Posted by Connery View Post
    For your convenience I will repost the relevant part of the statute. Also note that the above authority you rely upon has no idea what the hell he is talking about and is a legal malpractice case waiting to happen.
    Obviously on this particular, that would be you.

    The judge just doesn't have discretion as you say. She (Miss Tran), has the burden to make a showing by preponderance of the evidence that the absence has been or should be excused or that the absence was involuntary.

    And based on the information we have, there is no way she has met that burden.


    The judge only gets to exercise that directed "discretion" (cough), after Miss Tran makes a showing by preponderance of the evidence.
    So saying the Judge has discretion is ridiculous.
    Last edited by Excon; 05-30-12 at 11:01 AM.

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    Re: Honor student placed in jail for tardiness and truancy at school

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    You are.



    Actually you did not address that specifically.


    The answer is no.
    Part of it was emboldened by you.
    I will highlight the applicable portion, because apparently you are reading the statute incorrectly.

    Texas Family Code - Section 51.03. Delinquent Conduct; Conduct Indicating A Need For Supervision
    (d) It is an affirmative defense to an allegation of conduct
    under Subsection (b)(2) that one or more of the absences required to
    be proven under that subsection have been excused by a school
    official or by the court or that one or more of the absences were
    involuntary, but only if there is an insufficient number of
    unexcused or voluntary absences remaining to constitute conduct
    under Subsection (b)(2). The burden is on the respondent to show by
    a preponderance of the evidence that the absence has been or should
    be excused or that the absence was involuntary.
    A decision by the
    court to excuse an absence
    for purposes of this subsection does not
    affect the ability of the school district to determine whether to
    excuse the absence for another purpose.


    Obviously on this particular, that would be you.

    The judge just doesn't have discretion as you say. She (Miss Tran), has the burden to make a showing by preponderance of the evidence that the absence has been or should be excused or that the absence was involuntary.

    And based on the information we have, there is no way she has met that burden.


    The judge only gets to exercise that directed "discretion" (cough), after Miss Tran makes a showing by preponderance of the evidence.
    So saying the Judge has discretion is ridiculous.
    Once again you have chosen to introduce a canard to in a failed attempt to prove your point there was no way to address a fallacy(Your "authority" cites that the law does not excuse "honors students" and he is correct, but, that is not the issue whatsoever) in any post, but, to point out the judge has discretion. . Obviously she met her burden had as the judge stated he was open to reconsidering his decision.

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    Re: Honor student placed in jail for tardiness and truancy at school

    Quote Originally Posted by Connery View Post
    Once again you have chosen to introduce a canard to in a failed attempt to prove your point there was no way to address a fallacy(Your "authority" cites that the law does not excuse "honors students" and he is correct, but, that is not the issue whatsoever) in any post, but, to point out the judge has discretion. . Obviously she met her burden had as the judge stated he was open to reconsidering his decision.
    No. Sorry. That is not what is happening, and that isn't how law is applied.

    You said he had the discretion to excuse her activity, when he doesn't.

    She has to make a showing by the preponderance of the evidence and he can rule on it.
    That is the latitude the judge has.

    This reconsidering is nothing to even speak of.
    At most, on the punitive end, he will likely suspend the rest of the sentence (the $100 fine is all that is left), with dismissal as long as she meets attendance requirements. Technically leaving her with no record.


    Would you like to bet?

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    Re: Honor student placed in jail for tardiness and truancy at school

    Quote Originally Posted by Connery View Post
    The judge was lazy in the execution of his duties, the school administration was negligent. Ms. Tran stood before the judge who was apprised of the facts and therefore he was a mandated reporter. The school was aware of the family situation and did not report this.
    So what are you saying? That Ms. Tran should have been taken away and put in foster care or some such? Thats even more harsh than what this judge sentenced Ms. Tran for.

    Also as far as I know it is legal for 17 year olds to work in any state. Now if you can prove that Ms. Tran was forced by either of her parents to work and have the extensive curriculum that she had then you might have a case. But if she willingly chose to work and willingly wanted that curriculum then you have no basis to apply Abuse or Neglect to this situation.
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    Re: Honor student placed in jail for tardiness and truancy at school

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    No. Sorry. That is not what is happening, and that isn't how law is applied.
    Can you tell me how law is applied.

    You said he had the discretion to excuse her activity, when he doesn't.
    I have no idea what you are referring to, kindly provide a quote.

    She has to make a showing by the preponderance of the evidence and he can rule on it.
    That is the latitude the judge has.
    However, he is not compelled to exercise that discretion.

    This reconsidering is nothing to even speak of.
    At most, on the punitive end, he will likely suspend the rest of the sentence (the $100 fine is all that is left), with dismissal as long as she meets attendance requirements. Technically leaving her with no record.


    Would you like to bet?
    I have no idea what he will do.

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    Re: Honor student placed in jail for tardiness and truancy at school

    Quote Originally Posted by Connery View Post
    I have no idea what you are referring to, kindly provide a quote.
    Considering your following question, I'd say you know exactly what I am talking about.

    Quote Originally Posted by Connery View Post
    However, he is not compelled to exercise that discretion.
    That is not a discretion.
    If the court is moved, the judge has to make a ruling one way or the other. Which is compulsion.

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    Re: Honor student placed in jail for tardiness and truancy at school

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Answer me this question. Would ANY employer keep her on with such an attendence and tardiness record?

    And we have no idea what her grades were like. It doesn't mention them. But regardless of what her grades were/are that doesn't excuse anything. She had been previously warned about missing school, she ignored that warning. She had the chance to reduce her workload. She did not do so. She's the one that chose to take on as much as she did.
    She was choosing what was most important to her. If she had three jobs, and she wasn't making it to one of them because of that then she likely would have been fired, not put in jail. But, that would have been her choice. She wouldn't have been forced to be at any job just due to her age like she is school. If she was and she was still keeping up with the work at the job even if she wasn't there, then they would be stupid to fire her.
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    Re: Honor student placed in jail for tardiness and truancy at school

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Considering your following question, I'd say you know exactly what I am talking about.
    No I do not. Again making assumptions...

    That is not a discretion.
    If the court is moved, the judge has to make a ruling one way or the other. Which is compulsion.

    Nope, Judicial discretion: "Discretion is the power or right to make official decisions using reason and judgment to choose from among acceptable alternatives." For example, "the absence has been or should
    be excused or that the absence was involuntary."
    Legal definition of Judicial Discretion.


    The judge is under a duty to decide the matter before him, that is what he agreed to do when he accepted his role of Justice of the Peace.

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