• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Voter Fraud? 20,000 Felons Signed Wisconsin Recall Petition

Grim17 said:
This is quite interesting, because it looks like the democrats might be involved in a little voter fraud:



http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/201...-stalkers-signed-wiscsonsin-recall-petitions/


I did some checking, and according to Wisconsin law, people with felony convictions are barred from voting if incarcerated, on parole, or on probation for those crimes. So just for kicks, I looked at the list of people who committed felonies and decided to check the status of the very first person on the list, Kari A Tha, and sure enough, she is still on probation until at least mid 2013 for her 2005 felony conviction, which she served a year in prison for.

This means she's not eligable to vote in the state of Wisconsin, and according to the Democratic Party of Wisconsin, "Petition signers must reside in the district of the elected official being recalled and be eligible to vote in Wisconsin."

Voter fraud anyone?
Click to expand...

I wonder if there has ever been a close election where the democrats did not stuff the ballot box with illegal voters........Here in Washington state dead democrats and felons vote all the time......
 
OpportunityCost said:
Analogy argument that attempts to portray posters as ignorant is, in itself, a poor debating technique.

Ive quoted the statute under Wisconsin law and linked it where it says point blank what the law is. Yet we still have deniers here that wont accept the stated law as proof that proferring an ineligible signature is illegal in Wisconsin.

Yet you claim the conservatives are being ignorant. Again, whateva.
Click to expand...
How many felons violated this statute? Was it 20,000 or much less than that?
 
Navy Pride said:
I wonder if there has ever been a close election where the democrats did not stuff the ballot box with illegal voters........Here in Washington state dead democrats and felons vote all the time......
Click to expand...

If anybody actually believes that Republicans have never engaged in voter fraud, that is THE STUPIDEST ****ING THING I'VE EVER HEARD.
 
pbrauer said:
How many felons violated this statute? Was it 20,000 or much less than that?
Click to expand...

Does it matter? The Wisconsin AG and Sec of State ought to be looking into it, its part of their job.
 
OpportunityCost said:
Does it matter? The Wisconsin AG and Sec of State ought to be looking into it, its part of their job.
Click to expand...

The lists pointed to by The Gateway Pundit came from Put Wisconsin First, the group that is supporting Governor Walker. It’s pretty obvious to anyone who puts their brain in gear that those lists came directly from the Secretary of State; it’s also obvious those people in the list were not counted in the total for the recall. The Secretary of State is the only person who has the databases and software to produce such lists. Got it?? The Secretary is aware and has the tools necessary to knock people of the voter rolls and put them back on after their parole expires – it can be pretty complicated.

Counts do matter especially when they are misrepresented by people who either don’t understand them or are just lying for partisan purposes.

Here is the title that The Gateway Pundit put on his blog post: Figures. 20,000 Felons Including Killers, Arsonists, and Stalkers Signed Wisconsin Recall Petitions. Now here is the title that Grim put on this thread: “Voter Fraud? 20,000 Felons Signed Wisconsin Recall Petition.” In post 6 he says the person signed more than once, which is not true.


The 20,000 number does not represent the number of felons that signed the petition nor does it represent the number of signatures. It’s a bogus number that my post 120 points out:


pbrauer said:
Relax, the 20,000 and 400,000 figures are bogus. They represent the total number of convictions all those people who lied and signed the petition.

If you look at the following LIST, you will see that Daniel Coughlin appears on the list 10 times, but all with the same PWF Signer ID : 100011303. So, the counts will reflect 10 instead of just one. It would be interesting to know how many felons actually signed the petitions, but there in no way to know that from this vantage point.

Now, will Grim admit he is 98% wrong with this thread? Somehow I doubt it.
Click to expand...
 
pbrauer said:
The lists pointed to by The Gateway Pundit came from Put Wisconsin First, the group that is supporting Governor Walker. It’s pretty obvious to anyone who puts their brain in gear that those lists came directly from the Secretary of State; it’s also obvious those people in the list were not counted in the total for the recall. The Secretary of State is the only person who has the databases and software to produce such lists. Got it?? The Secretary is aware and has the tools necessary to knock people of the voter rolls and put them back on after their parole expires – it can be pretty complicated.

Counts do matter especially when they are misrepresented by people who either don’t understand them or are just lying for partisan purposes.

Here is the title that The Gateway Pundit put on his blog post: Figures. 20,000 Felons Including Killers, Arsonists, and Stalkers Signed Wisconsin Recall Petitions. Now here is the title that Grim put on this thread: “Voter Fraud? 20,000 Felons Signed Wisconsin Recall Petition.” In post 6 he says the person signed more than once, which is not true.


The 20,000 number does not represent the number of felons that signed the petition nor does it represent the number of signatures. It’s a bogus number that my post 120 points out:
Click to expand...

Lets be real Pete. I dont give a flying ****. If there are any, the AG and Sec of State for Wisconsin should have officials investigate the claims. I dont care how many there are. It should be looked at.

You feel differently? Or are you still looking to score semantic points?
 
OpportunityCost said:
Lets be real Pete. I dont give a flying ****. If there are any, the AG and Sec of State for Wisconsin should have officials investigate the claims. I dont care how many there are. It should be looked at.

You feel differently? Or are you still looking to score semantic points?
Click to expand...
Read the first line in the OP and you will know why I am ticked, Grim made this thread a partisan attack against the Democrats and made sound as if they were involved in getting 20,000 felons to sign the petitions. That's BS.

The AG and Sec of State for Wisconsin should do whatever the think is necessary and a good use of the resources. But it seems to me, the Sec of State already did his job by finding felons who signed the petition. :peace
 
pbrauer said:
Read the first line in the OP and you will know why I am ticked, Grim made this thread a partisan attack against the Democrats and made sound as if they were involved in getting 20,000 felons to sign the petitions. That's BS.

The AG and Sec of State for Wisconsin should do whatever the think is necessary and a good use of the resources. But it seems to me, the Sec of State already did his job by finding felons who signed the petition. :peace
Click to expand...

Bolded: really? I think they should abide by their oaths as proscribed in the state constitution of Wisconsin.
 
OpportunityCost said:
Bolded: really? I think they should abide by their oaths as proscribed in the state constitution of Wisconsin.
Click to expand...
Which means what? What do you mean when you want it investigated? Do you think this is an organized effort to have felons sign the petitions??
 
Khayembii Communique said:
Except that nobody falsified any information. They provided truthful information.
Click to expand...

The act of signing the petition was a false claim of voter eligibility... If you people can't admit to that, than you are more ideologically brainwashed than I had ever imagined.
 
Who keeps the records on this forum?

Because Pete quoted and went after me in 12 straight posts starting at post 105 and ending at post 116... Is that a forum record for obscessive stalking? If not, what is the record?
 
Grim17 said:
The act of signing the petition was a false claim of voter eligibility... If you people can't admit to that, than you are more ideologically brainwashed than I had ever imagined.
Click to expand...

that's not what "voter fraud" means.

voter fraud means votes being fraudulent.

that did not happen in the OP, making the OP dishonest.
 
Grim17 said:
This is quite interesting, because it looks like the democrats might be involved in a little voter fraud:



http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/201...-stalkers-signed-wiscsonsin-recall-petitions/


I did some checking, and according to Wisconsin law, people with felony convictions are barred from voting if incarcerated, on parole, or on probation for those crimes. So just for kicks, I looked at the list of people who committed felonies and decided to check the status of the very first person on the list, Kari A Tha, and sure enough, she is still on probation until at least mid 2013 for her 2005 felony conviction, which she served a year in prison for.

This means she's not eligable to vote in the state of Wisconsin, and according to the Democratic Party of Wisconsin, "Petition signers must reside in the district of the elected official being recalled and be eligible to vote in Wisconsin."

Voter fraud anyone?
Click to expand...

Ok, so nearly a million people signed the petition and 20k were thrown out for this reason.

2% error rate.
 
Grim17 said:
Who keeps the records on this forum?

Because Pete quoted and went after me in 12 straight posts starting at post 105 and ending at post 116... Is that a forum record for obscessive stalking? If not, what is the record?
Click to expand...

Did you learn anything from those posts?

  1. In your opinion, were Democrats involved as you suggest in your OP?
  2. Did 20,000 felons sign the petitions?
  3. Were there 20,000 signatures on petitions involving felons?
  4. Did Kari A Tha sign a petition three times or just once?
 
pbrauer said:
Did you learn anything from those posts?

  1. In your opinion, were Democrats involved as you suggest in your OP?
  2. Did 20,000 felons sign the petitions?
  3. Were there 20,000 signatures on petitions involving felons?
  4. Did Kari A Tha sign a petition three times or just once?
Click to expand...

1. Red herring
2. Irrelevant, investigate and find out how many did.
3. Hyperbole is being used, get over it and find out from enforcement officials how many actually were.
4. If she signed it three times strike the name twice and move on.

Pete you are stuck on irrelevencies and terrible arguments, can you admit the AG and Sec of State of Wisconsin should examine the findings and look for irregularities?

Because thats all I care about, that the law was followed as stated in the Wisconsin statutes. Muddies water aside that ought to be what the post is about imo.
 
Khayembii Communique said:
No it is not.
Click to expand...
Correct! There is nothing in the statute that addresses individual signers. But there is one that addresses the signature gather, at the bottom of each petition the gatherer must sign/date each page of the petition.
 
Thunder said:
that's not what "voter fraud" means.

voter fraud means votes being fraudulent.

that did not happen in the OP, making the OP dishonest.
Click to expand...

Really???? Well I'll be damned... Wish I would have come to that conclusion myself days ago... Wait!

Figure it out.
 
(3) PROHIBITED ACTS. No person may:
(a) Falsify any information in respect to or fraudulently deface
or destroy a certificate of nomination, nomination paper, declaration
of candidacy or petition for an election, including a recall
petition or petition for a referendum; or file or receive for filing a
certificate of nomination, nomination paper, declaration of candidacy
or any such petition, knowing any part is falsely made.
Click to expand...

Specifically, falsify any information. As a disclaimer on petitions where the state requires them to be voters it reads: by signing the following you are asserting that you are an eligible voter for the State of Wisconsin. Signing that statement, which is a legal document (a recall petition) you are falsifying it, at least as far your individual signature goes.

States generally look the other way in cases like this because its hard to track down and prove, let alone prosecute---but it IS illegal. Im not arguing as to any other thing. Apparently some of you dont understand what falsifying means, I dont mean false signatures, I mean that voters are ineligible and holding that they are such is an illegal act on an official document as outlined by statute.

Instead of putting up "no its not" "thats rediculous" why dont you illustrate to me how I am wrong---because none of you have made a shred of an attempt to do so.
 
OpportunityCost said:
Pete, it is illegal by the definition set into the statute, if a person signs a petition for recall in Wisconsin that they are ineligible for, they are committing a crime. A misdemeanor, but still a crime.
Click to expand...


Please post the statute that says it's a crime to sign a petition you're not qualified to sign
 
rocket88 said:
If anybody actually believes that Republicans have never engaged in voter fraud, that is THE STUPIDEST ****ING THING I'VE EVER HEARD.
Click to expand...

The RNC is the ONLY political party that has to operate under a court order to prevent it from engaging in electoral fraud
 
Grim17 said:
The act of signing the petition was a false claim of voter eligibility... If you people can't admit to that, than you are more ideologically brainwashed than I had ever imagined.
Click to expand...

So Grim has backed from "the democrats were engaged in fraud" to "the petition singers were engaged in fraud"

Will Grim ever acknowledge his mistake and make a retraction?

I don't think so
 
pbrauer said:
Did you learn anything from those posts?

  1. In your opinion, were Democrats involved as you suggest in your OP?
  2. Did 20,000 felons sign the petitions?
  3. Were there 20,000 signatures on petitions involving felons?
  4. Did Kari A Tha sign a petition three times or just once?
Click to expand...

I wonder if Grim is as good at counting his own mistakes as he is at counting your posts
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom