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Voter Fraud? 20,000 Felons Signed Wisconsin Recall Petition

OpportunityCost said:
Read the bold. Whether I like or dislike Grim's story, flasifying any information on a petition is, in fact, against the law in Wisconsin. Whether its prosecuted or not is an entirely different kettle of fish.

Except that nobody falsified any information. They provided truthful information.
 
Except that nobody falsified any information. They provided truthful information.

http://www.madisonteachers.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Circulator-Petitioner-Revised.pdf

Important rules to keep in mind when collecting signatures
To recall Governor Scott Walker and Lt. Governor Rebecca Kleefisch, we must collect 540,208 signatures in two distinct
petition drives. Understanding the requirements of circulating petitions and certifying valid signatures is critical to
ensure that volunteer efforts and signatures are not wasted. The guidelines below can help you understand what is
expected for recall signature gathering.
Circulators:
A “circulator” is a person who witnesses and collects the petitioner’s signature or signatures on a recall petition. A
circulator can be any eligible voter in the state of Wisconsin.
1. Must be over 18 years old,
2. A U.S. citizen or national,
3. Not a felon still serving a sentence,
4. Been a resident of Wisconsin for at least 28 days.
You DO NOT have to be registered to vote to be a petition circulator, only eligible.
Petitioners (aka “Signers”):
A “petitioner” is a person who signs a petition in one of the ten numbered spots, affirming that they support the recall of
Scott Walker from the office of governor (and Rebecca Kleefisch from the office of Lt. Governor on a second petition).
Any eligible voter in the state of Wisconsin can sign petitions. These are the same requirements for being a “Circulator”
(see above). A petitioner does NOT need to be a registered voter to sign—only eligible to vote in the next statewide
election. An ID is NOT required to sign the petition.
Circulating Guidelines:
Circulators can circulate freely in public and on public property; they may circulate on private property with permission.
They may also canvass door to door, as collecting signatures is organized political activity—NOT solicitation.
Ask if the person has already signed a petition. Duplicate signatures will not be thrown out but only one can be counted
toward the recall. Encouraging duplicate signatures may complicate the efforts to tabulate the number needed but if
the person is uncertain, they may sign a second petition without penalty.
The Circulator must personally witness each of the signatures on the petition. You may not leave recall petitions
unattended on a table, in a lounge, on a bulletin board, etc. and ask people to sign. You must be present when each
person signs the petition. You may not use school property (copiers, computers, phones, email, etc) to assist in the
recall efforts. Do not obtain signatures or perform recall activities during contract time.
A person can serve as both circulator and signer—i.e. they can witness their own petition. This means that someone
can download the petition from the website (Splash2) sign it as both a petitioner and circulator, and
mail it in.
Obtaining a Valid Signature
Each valid petitioner’s signature requires four pieces of information on the petition:
1. A signature or mark made by the signer
2. A viable house number and street address, or rural route (Note: PO Box addresses without a home street
address will be disqualified)
3. A MUNICIPALITY of residence in the state of Wisconsin (i.e. where they vote, which may not be the same as
where they get their mail).
4. Ensure that the box is checked indicating whether the municipality is a City, Village or Town.
5. The signature must be dated within the 60‐day collection period
Certifying the Petition
After you have obtained the signatures, review the information for accuracy and completeness. If you discover errors in
your review, first ask the petitioner to make the correction. If the petitioner is no longer accessible, you can make
corrections to the information on the petition EXCEPT for the “Signatures of Electors” section. If a change is warranted,
the correction should be initialed by the Circulator. Only the circulator of the petition can make corrections to the
information if it is found to be in error or incomplete.
Before the petition can be counted as valid, you must complete the Certification of Circulator section at the bottom of
the petition. By certifying the petition, the circulator acknowledges that he or she is aware that falsifying the
certification is punishable under §12.13(3) (a), Wis. Stats.
Failure to correctly certify the petition will result in the disqualification of all signatures on the petition. This is very
important!

Short version---people signing a petition are certifying they are eligible to vote; felons are not eligible to vote; they are falsifying a petition and committing election fraud under the Wisconsin statute. This is only true if what Gateway Pundit alleges is true and Im sure some of it is, Im also just as sure not all of it is.

Can we please drop the knee jerk reaction about whether its legal or not to sign a petition if you are not a legal, eligible voter? It clearly is not legal.
 
Could we please stop the knee jerk reaction by all the right wingnut attempting to fling poo at the much conservo-beloved "will of the people"?

Grim went off the reservation with his post, much ado about nothing, considering the right wing isn't a saint itself when it comes to actual voter fraud.

As pointed out above, trying to claim roughly half the folks signing a petition come up in a court search does nothing to actually prove these people are not eligible to sign/vote, hell any landlord suing to evict a default tenant would come up on that list if it was any court record.

Rather than dance around the fringes of this as if it mattered a lick, why not just admit some highly partisan folks in here will grasp any straw they can, no matter how obvious the deceit involved?

It is very telling this thread started as fire and brimstone with outrage and indignation over hundreds of thousands of 'felons' committing 'voter fraud' in a already certified petition drive...

to die off as sour grapes whimpering over a handful at best of 900,000 names. From felons and voter fraud to 'well technically' and if anyone would actually prosecute anyone over this...

Fire and umbrage to.... whimpers....

I love this forum!!!! :peace
 
http://www.madisonteachers.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Circulator-Petitioner-Revised.pdf



Short version---people signing a petition are certifying they are eligible to vote; felons are not eligible to vote; they are falsifying a petition and committing election fraud under the Wisconsin statute. This is only true if what Gateway Pundit alleges is true and Im sure some of it is, Im also just as sure not all of it is.

Can we please drop the knee jerk reaction about whether its legal or not to sign a petition if you are not a legal, eligible voter? It clearly is not legal.

Those are instructions and guidelines each signature gatherer need to follow - if you read the bottom of each petition, the petitioner must certify and sign that they followed the correct procedures in gathering the signatures for that petition. In short the signature gatherer is required to ask the questions, but has no control over the truthfulness of individual signers.
 
This is quite interesting, because it looks like the democrats might be involved in a little voter fraud:



http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/201...-stalkers-signed-wiscsonsin-recall-petitions/


I did some checking, and according to Wisconsin law, people with felony convictions are barred from voting if incarcerated, on parole, or on probation for those crimes. So just for kicks, I looked at the list of people who committed felonies and decided to check the status of the very first person on the list, Kari A Tha, and sure enough, she is still on probation until at least mid 2013 for her 2005 felony conviction, which she served a year in prison for.

This means she's not eligable to vote in the state of Wisconsin, and according to the Democratic Party of Wisconsin, "Petition signers must reside in the district of the elected official being recalled and be eligible to vote in Wisconsin."

Voter fraud anyone?

LMMFAO

Kari A Tha was listed three times, do you know why??? Because she had 3 convictions, but she only signed the petition once. Clearly those people who developed the list don't much about IT (data processing).
 
You're right... There must be dozens and dozens of people named "Kari A Tha" in the state of Wisconsin that also lived at that address. LMMFAO

Other than that clever "attack the source" retort of yours, do you have anything to say about the honesty and ethics of your political brothers and sisters?

Validated my ass

When will you admit you're wrong, Grim???

LMMFAO

Kari A Tha was listed three times, do you know why??? Because she had 3 convictions, but she only signed the petition once. Clearly those people who developed the list don't much about IT (data processing).
 
I'll do you one better than that... Look at line 5:

View attachment 67128286

Now you might want to go HERE and pay close attention to the address of the defendant...

Would you say that a retraction on your part is in order?

It's YOU that needs to retract your comments and apologize Grim.

LMMFAO

Kari A Tha was listed three times, do you know why??? Because she had 3 convictions, but she only signed the petition once. Clearly those people who developed the list don't much about IT (data processing).

:lamo :lamo :lamo
 
Yes, that's the ticket boys and girls... Anything to avoid dealing with the dishonesty and lack of moral standards of your political brothers and sisters.

Please admit YOU are wrong and admit this is one of the worst threads created at DP.

LMMFAO

Kari A Tha was listed three times, do you know why??? Because she had 3 convictions, but she only signed the petition once. Clearly those people who developed the list don't much about IT (data processing).

:lamo :lamo :lamo
 
Already did... You will find it on post #1

About that retraction?

Hopefully from you Grim?
LMMFAO


Kari A Tha was listed three times, do you know why??? Because she had 3 convictions, but she only signed the petition once. Clearly those people who developed the list don't much about IT (data processing).

:lamo :lamo :lamo
 
Maybe I will dig up the video footage of one of the people who was collecting signitures and even let kids sign it.

If this blog could determine these things, then surely the democrats could have also... That is, if they actually gave a rats ass about honesty, integrity and the law.

Face it Grim, neither you nor Jim understood what you were looking; you were fooled!!!

LMMFAO

Kari A Tha was listed three times, do you know why??? Because she had 3 convictions, but she only signed the petition once. Clearly those people who developed the list don't much about IT (data processing).

:mrgreen:
 
How's that retraction coming along?
When are YOU going to retract this whole thread, Grim? I need to remind you said in your OP this:

This is quite interesting, because it looks like the democrats might be involved in a little voter fraud:

LMMFAO

Kari A Tha was listed three times, do you know why??? Because she had 3 convictions, but she only signed the petition once. Clearly those people who developed the list don't much about IT (data processing).
 
So I made a mistake in classifying the fraud?

Does that mean the story is invalid and this crap didn't happen?

Is my mistake really a bigger issue than what took place in Wisconsin?
The issue is that you don't know WTF you are talking about.

LMMFAO

Kari A Tha was listed three times, do you know why??? Because she had 3 convictions, but she only signed the petition once. Clearly those people who developed the list don't much about IT (data processing).
 
Just click the links on post 1... and before I become the topic once again, I was wrong about the voter fraud claim. It is fraud of some sort by someone though... even though aparantly mislabeling it means it never really happened or something.
The problem, Grim, is YOU got fooled by The Gateway Pundit.

LMMFAO

Kari A Tha was listed three times, do you know why??? Because she had 3 convictions, but she only signed the petition once. Clearly those people who developed the list don't much about IT (data processing).
 
It was not voter fraud, but I did prove there was something illegal.

Now are you going to retract your statement, or are you a partisan coward that puts politics above the truth and doing what's right?
Bold: a question you should be asking yourself. :coffeepap:


The facts are that some people lied to the signature gatherers and said they were not felons, but certainly not 20,000 as you claimed. The signature gatherers can't be held responsible for the lies of the petition signers. The number of times they appear on the list is more a reflection on how many convictions they've had as I've pointed out:

LMMFAO

Kari A Tha was listed three times, do you know why??? Because she had 3 convictions, but she only signed the petition once. Clearly those people who developed the list don't much about IT (data processing).
 
Oh yes I did... Now why don't you crawl back under that rock of yours, because discussing this with you is a waste of my time.
Once again, what did you prove, Grim? Could it be your are nothing more than a partisan hack that puts politics before the the truth?

Once again:

LMMFAO

Kari A Tha was listed three times, do you know why??? Because she had 3 convictions, but she only signed the petition once. Clearly those people who developed the list don't much about IT (data processing).
 
Could we please stop the knee jerk reaction by all the right wingnut attempting to fling poo at the much conservo-beloved "will of the people"?

Grim went off the reservation with his post, much ado about nothing, considering the right wing isn't a saint itself when it comes to actual voter fraud.

As pointed out above, trying to claim roughly half the folks signing a petition come up in a court search does nothing to actually prove these people are not eligible to sign/vote, hell any landlord suing to evict a default tenant would come up on that list if it was any court record.

Rather than dance around the fringes of this as if it mattered a lick, why not just admit some highly partisan folks in here will grasp any straw they can, no matter how obvious the deceit involved?

It is very telling this thread started as fire and brimstone with outrage and indignation over hundreds of thousands of 'felons' committing 'voter fraud' in a already certified petition drive...

to die off as sour grapes whimpering over a handful at best of 900,000 names. From felons and voter fraud to 'well technically' and if anyone would actually prosecute anyone over this...

Fire and umbrage to.... whimpers....

I love this forum!!!! :peace

Bolded is a personal attack on any right leaning poster in this thread. Post reported.

Your post is disingenuous. Im not arguing techinically, Im arguing in fact about exactly what is fraud. According to what Hoft reported, Im sure there are some falsified names upon that petition from ineligible voters. Which kind of highlights a problem regarding voter fraud convictions: they are notoriously hard to prove, not followed up on properly for proscecution and thus they remain rare instances when we have instances like this that hint an independent investigation by law enforcement is warranted.

Pete, it is illegal by the definition set into the statute, if a person signs a petition for recall in Wisconsin that they are ineligible for, they are committing a crime. A misdemeanor, but still a crime.
 
Wow... You are a blatant liar and seem to be proud of it... Oh, and that is not an attack, it is a fact that I will prove right now.





Here's the evidence:

http://www.debatepolitics.com/break...sconsin-recall-petition-3.html#post1060526618




The laws for Wisconsin are located here, which states that a convicted felon on probation is not eligable to vote:

State Felon Voting Laws - Felon Voting - ProCon.org


From the Democratic Party of Wisconsin:

Q: Who can sign a recall petition?

Petition signers must reside in the district of the elected official being recalled and be eligible to vote in Wisconsin.​



And finally, this is the court document proving that Kari is on probation at least until mid 2013:

Charge Details for 2005CF001914 in Dane County


Like I said, calling you a liar is not an attack, but a proven fact...

I'll give this one to you, Grim, she is not eligible to vote, however the petitions gatherers can't be responsible for the lies of the signers of the petitions. Be careful when you someone else a liar, you might just get in trouble here at DP for doing it.
A reminder:

LMMFAO

Kari A Tha was listed three times, do you know why??? Because she had 3 convictions, but she only signed the petition once. Clearly those people who developed the list don't much about IT (data processing).
 
Kari A Tha was listed three times, do you know why??? Because she had 3 convictions, but she only signed the petition once. Clearly those people who developed the list don't much about IT (data processing).

Apparently they knew more than the people who didnt catch she was a felon for the initial processing. shrug
 
Due to our resident conservative lawyer bailing that damn quick in the thread I'd say the stink being raised by our favorite Grim is silly at best. More like sour grapes and bitter partisanship.

Let me see if my Okie ass understands this-
20,000 of 900,000 MAY be felons not eligible to vote but far more than enough to call for a new vote have been CERTIFIED.

So some highly partisan whiners will throw anything against the wall and hope it sticks.

It didn't :3oops:
Oh, it's much worse than that:


So, as we can clearly see, over four hundred thousand criminals or accused criminals signed those petitions.... :lamo

Relax, the 20,000 and 400,000 figures are bogus. They represent the total number of convictions all those people who lied and signed the petition.

If you look at the following LIST, you will see that Daniel Coughlin appears on the list 10 times, but all with the same PWF Signer ID : 100011303. So, the counts will reflect 10 instead of just one. It would be interesting to know how many felons actually signed the petitions, but there in no way to know that from this vantage point.

Now, will Grim admit he is 98% wrong with this thread? Somehow I doubt it.
 
Short version---people signing a petition are certifying they are eligible to vote

Writing an invalid signature on a recall petition is not illegal, what an absolutely ridiculous claim.
 
Bolded is a personal attack on any right leaning poster in this thread. Post reported.

FACEPALM! Dear God, you are calling that a personal attack? Good luck with that.:lamo

Your post is disingenuous. Im not arguing techinically, Im arguing in fact about exactly what is fraud. According to what Hoft reported, Im sure there are some falsified names upon that petition from ineligible voters. Which kind of highlights a problem regarding voter fraud convictions: they are notoriously hard to prove, not followed up on properly for proscecution and thus they remain rare instances when we have instances like this that hint an independent investigation by law enforcement is warranted.
There is no investigation needed; there is software to eliminate felons from the voter list before elections and to eliminate felons when they sign petitions. Follow the OP and see it in action. ;)How would the state eliminate felons from the voter rolls if the didn't have such software? I assume they would be able to vote when their parole period is finished.


Pete, it is illegal by th e definition set into the statute, if a person signs a petition for recall in Wisconsin that they are ineligible for, they are committing a crime. A misdemeanor, but still a crime.
If they sign the document it won't be counted if found, however I seriously doubt they are committing a crime. If it were a crime, the signers would be warned, but they aren't. Petitions are not elections and all the petitioners need to do is beat a certain standard set by the state. The petitioners beat that by miles.
 
Bolded is a personal attack on any right leaning poster in this thread. Post reported [...]
Perfect example of the typical progression of the typical thread from the typical right wing talk media fan.

Step 1: Fan gleans headline from right wing talk media source, runs to favorite internet forum and trumpets it loudly to the world. Example: "World is flat!"

Step 2: OP is quickly pwned by those that do a modicum of research and note that the world is round.

Step 3: OP and/or supporters challenges anyone to provide proof that world is round. Laughter ensues. Professional debaters facepalm. After several back and forth, OP and/or supporters claim that world is spheriod, not perfectly round, so the detractors are wrong as well, so it's a tie. Detractors laugh derisively.

Step 4: OP and/or supporters claim they are being mocked and insulted, try to get thread banished or locked (this is often successful), effectively burying their failure.

Step 5: A few days later, a new thread appears: "World is flat!" :lamo
 
Perfect example of the typical progression of the typical thread from the typical right wing talk media fan.

Step 1: Fan gleans headline from right wing talk media source, runs to favorite internet forum and trumpets it loudly to the world. Example: "World is flat!"

Step 2: OP is quickly pwned by those that do a modicum of research and note that the world is round.

Step 3: OP and/or supporters challenges anyone to provide proof that world is round. Laughter ensues. Professional debaters facepalm. After several back and forth, OP and/or supporters claim that world is spheriod, not perfectly round, so the detractors are wrong as well, so it's a tie. Detractors laugh derisively.

Step 4: OP and/or supporters claim they are being mocked and insulted, try to get thread banished or locked (this is often successful), effectively burying their failure.

Step 5: A few days later, a new thread appears: "World is flat!" :lamo

Analogy argument that attempts to portray posters as ignorant is, in itself, a poor debating technique.

Ive quoted the statute under Wisconsin law and linked it where it says point blank what the law is. Yet we still have deniers here that wont accept the stated law as proof that proferring an ineligible signature is illegal in Wisconsin.

Yet you claim the conservatives are being ignorant. Again, whateva.
 
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