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Thread: NAACP backs gay marriage

  1. #231
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    Re: NAACP Backs Same-Sex Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    A) I ceded that one text was written before the Bible. Although that text isn't along the same lines as the Bible and doesn't reflect redundant points in history. You can read can't you?
    B) Like I said, you insinuated that the Bible copied other religions because the texts were similar. I showed that it was not possible because the Bible was written before them. If anything, they copied the Bible, not vice versa. Whether you believe the Bible is true or not wasn't the issue. You're moving the goal posts. The issue was Christians copying other religions texts. I showed the Bible was written before similar texts, so if anything its the opposite.
    The stories are similar, whether they were written down or not. It is very easy for something that is heard by word of mouth from another religion to be taken in by this other religion and used as their own. So what if they wrote it down first? They weren't copying other texts, they were taking from other religions.

    And you started this argument about what came first with this statement:#214

    You do know that the Bible existed before any other religious documents correct? So, who's religion is based off who's? What proof do you have of your god?
    And I pointed out to you that we did not need religious texts to know about a culture's religious beliefs. Their beliefs existed, whether written down or not, prior to the Bible. Those past religions still had beliefs that were very similar to those of the Bible's but even before many of those things in the Bible were occurring. It almost sounds like a game of telephone, looking back on it, where someone finally wrote down what was being said as if it were the absolute first thing said, but none of us really knowing the truth since it was basically all word-of-mouth til that first time it got written down which was long after the story started.
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  2. #232
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    Re: NAACP Backs Same-Sex Marriage

    I find it fascinating that, uniquely with regards to religion, people find the existence of multi-source reporting to be a discrediting factor.

  3. #233
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    Re: NAACP Backs Same-Sex Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    And I pointed out to you that we did not need religious texts to know about a culture's religious beliefs. Their beliefs existed, whether written down or not, prior to the Bible. Those past religions still had beliefs that were very similar to those of the Bible's but even before many of those things in the Bible were occurring. It almost sounds like a game of telephone, looking back on it, where someone finally wrote down what was being said as if it were the absolute first thing said, but none of us really knowing the truth since it was basically all word-of-mouth til that first time it got written down which was long after the story started.
    Telephone is a bad example - only the individual sender and receiver are aware of the message that is passed. Group telephone (which is what oral tradition is) offers instant correction to account corruption.

    That being said, you can't really say that last bit about "the Bible", because the Bible was neither written in a single place, or in a single time, nor is it a single text. You have some documents that were clearly written by primary sources, and some that are clearly written down portions of an oral tradition.

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    Re: NAACP Backs Same-Sex Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    I find it fascinating that, uniquely with regards to religion, people find the existence of multi-source reporting to be a discrediting factor.
    I often wonder why republicans on these forms did. Not sure what you're refering to here, but often things reported in mutiple sources are not accepted by republicans on these boards.

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  5. #235
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    Re: NAACP Backs Same-Sex Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Telephone is a bad example - only the individual sender and receiver are aware of the message that is passed. Group telephone (which is what oral tradition is) offers instant correction to account corruption.

    That being said, you can't really say that last bit about "the Bible", because the Bible was neither written in a single place, or in a single time, nor is it a single text. You have some documents that were clearly written by primary sources, and some that are clearly written down portions of an oral tradition.
    The whole "others would correct those that said something wrong" is such bull. First it would require others that actually knew about what was being written to correct those that were wrong. Second it is disproved by the group-think mindset that leads to people who should have known something was wrong accepting that thing as right because they doubt their own knowledge of the incident.

    So lets say two or three guys start talking about something they heard. And one tells the others that he heard something particular that the others don't remember hearing. So now the other two should correct him right? Psychology easily proves that it is more than possible that instead of correcting him, the other two will start believing that not only did he hear it, but that they actually may have heard that too. Now you have three people believing the mistake. Those three talk to others who may or may not have been there, and even if they are contradicted, they are slowly getting more and more credibility to turn the story to something that didn't happen but is believed anyway.

    Plus, much of the stuff in the Bible is not large groups of people getting together and being able to confirm every point in the Bible. They were small groups of people talking to one another and the stories spread about what others think they may have heard. The first person to write it down or the person with the most influence likely gets his version believed, despite his not necessarily being the true account. There are so many possibilities for change or errors or mistaken explanations pertaining to the Bible, not to mention the fact that there is no way there could be proof for things like God talking to specific people, that we can't possibly know how accurate the Bible truly is.

    What we do know is that science contradicts the Bible. I'm going with science here until other actual evidence exists to show otherwise.
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    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  6. #236
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    Re: NAACP Backs Same-Sex Marriage

    The Bible was not written to be a science text book. It's contents are designed to guide man to God and teach humanity how to obtain salvation and live a Godly life. As a scientist I can say that science does not contradict the Bible and neither does the Bible contradict science. That's just an ignorant accusation made by others to undermine Biblical validity. Christians are also guilty of wanting to use the Bible as a science text book and take things from it that were not meant to be taken as scientific fact.
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    Re: NAACP Backs Same-Sex Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    I find it fascinating that, uniquely with regards to religion, people find the existence of multi-source reporting to be a discrediting factor.
    We don't truly have multiple sources though. Particularly for the details or the lesser stories of the Bible. We have texts that many of us can't even understand in their original language. We have things that we know are wrong, such as no proof whatsoever that there was ever a world-wide flood, particularly since man has existed nor that the planet/universe kinda popped into being around 6K-8K years ago. We have proof for another species kind of like us that lived along side us for at least a small amount of time in our very distant past.

    Even if there are multiple sources for some of the stories of the New Testament, that doesn't mean this is so for everything. For example, many of the things taken from the disciples and put into the Bible is letters to various religious people talking about what God/Jesus wants as told by the disciples. So why wouldn't they all match? We know they don't since all the disciples basically believed in at least some things the others didn't. Paul comes to mind as being one of those who certainly spoke about much more than the others.

    Then we have the translation thing. There are serious theological debates about the meanings of certain words in the Bible and whether they were really translated correctly. And it isn't a small minority thinking that some words were translated wrong. There is debate by many.

    And it still begs the question about the authenticity of the writings. How do we know that those who are credited with writing those texts actually did or were truly there at all? Why couldn't they have heard the stories from the other people? The stories in the Bible are honestly not that descriptive.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  8. #238
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    Re: NAACP Backs Same-Sex Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    The stories are similar, whether they were written down or not. It is very easy for something that is heard by word of mouth from another religion to be taken in by this other religion and used as their own. So what if they wrote it down first? They weren't copying other texts, they were taking from other religions.
    The Bible was the original document showing the "stories" you are speaking of. Unless you have proof that other religions believe it first, then this is simply hyperbole.
    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    And I pointed out to you that we did not need religious texts to know about a culture's religious beliefs. Their beliefs existed, whether written down or not, prior to the Bible. Those past religions still had beliefs that were very similar to those of the Bible's but even before many of those things in the Bible were occurring. It almost sounds like a game of telephone, looking back on it, where someone finally wrote down what was being said as if it were the absolute first thing said, but none of us really knowing the truth since it was basically all word-of-mouth til that first time it got written down which was long after the story started.
    How do you know they existed prior to the Bible though? What proof do you have?
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