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Thread: NAACP backs gay marriage

  1. #221
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    Re: NAACP Backs Same-Sex Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Your source is a little suspect. But, lets look at the dates:




    Now, the hindism above is sited at 1700–1100 BCE. Which is older?

    Now, you can do a search on this text, and you will find all of them putting it as older. I have no dog in this fight, but it seems a silly claim when it is so easy to find tests older.
    It depends on the searches you do for this subject but I will cede that it is questionable. I'll settle to say it's AT LEAST the second oldest. How about that?
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

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    Re: NAACP Backs Same-Sex Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    It depends on the searches you do for this subject but I will cede that it is questionable. I'll settle to say it's AT LEAST the second oldest. How about that?
    No, as pointed out by roguenuke, that religion predates Christianity by a long ways. Much of it was oral and not written. Chritianity came about during the age of enlightenment, and many similar religions around the world were born. However, they were not near the first. I put no stock in what came first, but clearly, it wasn't Christianity.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: NAACP Backs Same-Sex Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No, as pointed out by roguenuke, that religion predates Christianity by a long ways. Much of it was oral and not written. Chritianity came about during the age of enlightenment, and many similar religions around the world were born. However, they were not near the first. I put no stock in what came first, but clearly, it wasn't Christianity.
    The argument wasn't if Christianity was first. It was which TEXT was the oldest.
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

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    Re: NAACP Backs Same-Sex Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    The argument wasn't if Christianity was first. It was which TEXT was the oldest.
    Why does it matter which texts were first? So the others didn't waste paper writing down their beliefs. Why does that matter? It doesn't change what they believed or the reasons why they believed them, in either case. And many of the Christian stories began as word of mouth, not written texts. They just happened to last long enough to become written text, and not just hieroglyphs or pictures or passed down.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: NAACP Backs Same-Sex Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    The argument wasn't if Christianity was first. It was which TEXT was the oldest.
    It does matter. But it wasn't the first text either, as noted by dates given. However, being first to write it down has no bearing on anything.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: NAACP Backs Same-Sex Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    and which isn't that much different than claims of other people of different religions in their own explanations for things they could not otherwise understand.
    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Why does it matter which texts were first? So the others didn't waste paper writing down their beliefs. Why does that matter? It doesn't change what they believed or the reasons why they believed them, in either case. And many of the Christian stories began as word of mouth, not written texts. They just happened to last long enough to become written text, and not just hieroglyphs or pictures or passed down.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    It does matter. But it wasn't the first text either, as noted by dates given. However, being first to write it down has no bearing on anything.
    The claim was, by Rouge, that other religions have a similar account to Christianity. I was merely showing that the Bible was written before any of those religions that have a similar history.
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

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    Re: NAACP Backs Same-Sex Marriage

    FYI:

    The oldest known religious texts are Pyramid texts of Ancient Egypt that date to 2400-2300 BCE. The earliest form of the Phoenician alphabet found to date is the inscription on the sarcophagus of King Ahiram of Byblos. ( The Sumerian Temple Hymns [1]). The Epic of Gilgamesh from Sumeria is also one of the earliest literary works dating to 2150-2000 BCE, that includes various mythological figures. The Rigveda of Hinduism is proposed to have been composed between 1700–1100 BCE[2] making it possibly the world's oldest religious text still in use. The oldest portions of the Zoroastrian Avesta are believed to have been transmitted orally for centuries before they found written form, and although widely differing dates for Gathic Avestan (the language of the oldest texts) have been proposed, scholarly consensus floats at around 1000 BCE.[citation needed]

    The majority of scholars agree that the Torah's composition took place over centuries.[3] From the late 19th century there was a general consensus around the documentary hypothesis, which suggests that the five books were created c.450 BCE by combining four originally independent sources, known as the Jahwist, or J (about 900 BCE), the Elohist, or E (about 800 BCE), the Deuteronomist, or D, (about 600 BCE), and the Priestly source, or P (about 500 BC).[4]

    The first scripture printed for wide distribution to the masses was The Diamond Sutra, a Buddhist scripture, and is the earliest recorded example of a dated printed text, bearing the Chinese calendar date for 11 May 868 CE.[5]
    Source

    And calling the Old Testament the oldest is wrong on two counts. One as described above and two, because it wasn't the OT but the Torah you're talking about. The OT is a damaged and rewritten copy of the Torah. The Bible itself, including the OT, is a compilation of Christian religious texts put together much later in the game and by a Church congress that were "selective" on which texts would solidify the Church.
    Last edited by clownboy; 06-08-12 at 04:33 PM.

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    Re: NAACP Backs Same-Sex Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    The claim was, by Rouge, that other religions have a similar account to Christianity. I was merely showing that the Bible was written before any of those religions that have a similar history.
    I never claimed those other religions had to be written down to have any bearing on this. You are the one who kept making the claim about the Bible being written first. Okay, great. It really isn't completely true, since other religious writings were made earlier, even if they weren't an actual "book". But it has no bearing on whether that gives the Bible more credibility or not in its claim to be the truth or in whether those writers weren't just trying to use "God" to explain those things which they were unable to find a reason for happening.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: NAACP Backs Same-Sex Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    The claim was, by Rouge, that other religions have a similar account to Christianity. I was merely showing that the Bible was written before any of those religions that have a similar history.
    See her reply.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: NAACP Backs Same-Sex Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    I never claimed those other religions had to be written down to have any bearing on this. You are the one who kept making the claim about the Bible being written first. Okay, great. It really isn't completely true, since other religious writings were made earlier, even if they weren't an actual "book". But it has no bearing on whether that gives the Bible more credibility or not in its claim to be the truth or in whether those writers weren't just trying to use "God" to explain those things which they were unable to find a reason for happening.
    A) I ceded that one text was written before the Bible. Although that text isn't along the same lines as the Bible and doesn't reflect redundant points in history. You can read can't you?
    B) Like I said, you insinuated that the Bible copied other religions because the texts were similar. I showed that it was not possible because the Bible was written before them. If anything, they copied the Bible, not vice versa. Whether you believe the Bible is true or not wasn't the issue. You're moving the goal posts. The issue was Christians copying other religions texts. I showed the Bible was written before similar texts, so if anything its the opposite.
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

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