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Thread: NAACP backs gay marriage

  1. #191
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    Re: NAACP Backs Same-Sex Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Reputable scientists agree that the Earth is billions of years old and humans have been on the planet for around 200000 years, and that is just modern humans.

    Age of the Earth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Evidence against a recent creation - RationalWiki
    *note the references at the bottom of these with the links to evidences that support these articles

    There is absolutely zero evidence to support a world wide flood, plus it would be absolutely impossible for Noah to have fit every living animal on the planet plus enough food for all of them onto the Ark. Along with the fact that he would have had to make several stops along the way to put the proper animals onto the continents that they ended up on. They certainly didn't swim back to their proper homes.

    Problems with a Global Flood, 2nd edition

    There is absolutely no way that earlier humans lived centuries longer than we now live.

    Longevity, ageing, and life history of Homo sapiens
    Without getting into a source finding war, I'll just say this.
    -Scientists thought the earth was flat for a long time. It was a given. It was undisputed. Then, all of a sudden, it wasn't.
    -Scientists said there were canals on Mars and that meant there had to be life. This spawned many more "facts" about Mars. Well, once a better telescope came out, turns out they were just dust being blown across the lens of the old telescope.
    -Scientists said all people were born with a blank slate personality. Parents and outside influences caused all behavior pros and cons. Well, the discovery of DNA debunked that. Heck, we discovered DNA in 1869 but scientists still ignored it until 1953.

    Geologists and historians now just accept that carbon dating is accurate. They don't dispute it. So naturally, when you are using a flawed measuring unit, the dating is going to be off.
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

  2. #192
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    Re: NAACP Backs Same-Sex Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    Without getting into a source finding war, I'll just say this.
    -Scientists thought the earth was flat for a long time. It was a given. It was undisputed. Then, all of a sudden, it wasn't.
    -Scientists said there were canals on Mars and that meant there had to be life. This spawned many more "facts" about Mars. Well, once a better telescope came out, turns out they were just dust being blown across the lens of the old telescope.
    -Scientists said all people were born with a blank slate personality. Parents and outside influences caused all behavior pros and cons. Well, the discovery of DNA debunked that. Heck, we discovered DNA in 1869 but scientists still ignored it until 1953.

    Geologists and historians now just accept that carbon dating is accurate. They don't dispute it. So naturally, when you are using a flawed measuring unit, the dating is going to be off.
    You're not making any sense.

    First of all, many scientists still believe that there is or could have been life on Mars and water on Mars. It may not be/have been sentient life, but it's still life.

    'Compelling' evidence of life on Mars: Nasa - Times Of India
    Epic search for evidence of life on Mars heats up with focus on high-tech instruments

    Second, we are moving from believing that the Earth is young to believing it is older, it is highly unlikely that we will go back to believing it is young again without some pretty extensive evidence. There is a lot of evidence to believe the Earth is much older than the Bible says, not just carbon dating.

    You are the one starting from the premise that the Earth is young and looking for as much evidence as possible to prove it must be because the Bible says so. The scientific evidence suggests otherwise though.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  3. #193
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    Re: NAACP Backs Same-Sex Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    Small children are exempt from being responsible for their actions ie they are not required to have made the decision of whether to accept Christ into their heart or not. Those children automatically went to heaven. When a child is old enough to know the difference between right and wrong and understands the gravity of what God is, then he will face judgement. What age that is, I don't know. The Bible doesn't give an age. My guess, and it's only a guess, would be that God does it on a case by case basis. Some children are more mature and understand what's going on earlier than others. My son was 5 when he was saved and he fully understood why he was doing what he was doing.
    I don't care if they went to heaven or not. God was cruel to destroy the world (or even just a city or two) and them with it just to destroy "the evil people", if the story is true.

    Of course, since there is no evidence that a worldwide flood ever occurred, it is also unlikely that He actually did flood the whole world to destroy everyone. What is possible is that some guy in this region of Asia/the Middle East/Africa somehow predicted a flood for his area/region (maybe it was God who told him, who knows) and he saved himself, his family, and as many animals as he could. He likely never left the area he lived in so believed the Earth had flooded, but it was really just his region.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  4. #194
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    Re: NAACP Backs Same-Sex Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    You're not making any sense.
    First of all, many scientists still believe that there is or could have been life on Mars and water on Mars. It may not be/have been sentient life, but it's still life.
    'Compelling' evidence of life on Mars: Nasa - Times Of India
    Epic search for evidence of life on Mars heats up with focus on high-tech instruments
    Second, we are moving from believing that the Earth is young to believing it is older, it is highly unlikely that we will go back to believing it is young again without some pretty extensive evidence. There is a lot of evidence to believe the Earth is much older than the Bible says, not just carbon dating.
    You are the one starting from the premise that the Earth is young and looking for as much evidence as possible to prove it must be because the Bible says so. The scientific evidence suggests otherwise though.
    The sense that is being made is that human beings are not perfect. Yes, it's true, scientists are human beings. They can make mistakes. I just showed some of the ones these all intelligent beings made. It's funny that you can't believe a book that has been vetted and has historic documents backing it but you will believe some dude you've never met. That's the funny part about this whole thing. You claim not to believe the Bible because "what if some guys from long ago just wrote it to fit their needs". Yet, you'll believe some other guy, whom you've also never met, never will meet, and who could possibly be in the same class as you accuse the writers of the Bible to be in. You're attempting to paint me as some sort of imbecile because I have faith in my God and His word yet you believe the words of some guy who went to college longer than you.
    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    I don't care if they went to heaven or not. God was cruel to destroy the world (or even just a city or two) and them with it just to destroy "the evil people", if the story is true.

    Of course, since there is no evidence that a worldwide flood ever occurred, it is also unlikely that He actually did flood the whole world to destroy everyone. What is possible is that some guy in this region of Asia/the Middle East/Africa somehow predicted a flood for his area/region (maybe it was God who told him, who knows) and he saved himself, his family, and as many animals as he could. He likely never left the area he lived in so believed the Earth had flooded, but it was really just his region.
    So God was cruel to destroy evil people but allow children into heaven? A better place that this earth could ever be?
    This point reminds me. You never answered my question about your god. You act as though the god you believe in would never judge people and be so cruel. Do you plan to be in heaven with Hitler and Stalin? Are those men not evil? I base this on the premise that you believe in heaven. If not, then disregard the question.
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

  5. #195
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    Re: NAACP Backs Same-Sex Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    The sense that is being made is that human beings are not perfect. Yes, it's true, scientists are human beings. They can make mistakes. I just showed some of the ones these all intelligent beings made. It's funny that you can't believe a book that has been vetted and has historic documents backing it but you will believe some dude you've never met. That's the funny part about this whole thing. You claim not to believe the Bible because "what if some guys from long ago just wrote it to fit their needs". Yet, you'll believe some other guy, whom you've also never met, never will meet, and who could possibly be in the same class as you accuse the writers of the Bible to be in. You're attempting to paint me as some sort of imbecile because I have faith in my God and His word yet you believe the words of some guy who went to college longer than you.
    So why couldn't those who wrote the Bible also have erred or lied?

    I may not have met those scientist, but I know that I can verify if what they are saying is true. Plus, I have seen the evidence for evolution. It doesn't take too much searching to see it. And I know from my experiences just living that it is nearly impossible that entire populations of people could all be evil. That just doesn't fit into reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    So God was cruel to destroy evil people but allow children into heaven? A better place that this earth could ever be?
    This point reminds me. You never answered my question about your god. You act as though the god you believe in would never judge people and be so cruel. Do you plan to be in heaven with Hitler and Stalin? Are those men not evil? I base this on the premise that you believe in heaven. If not, then disregard the question.
    Yes. Because why give people life just to take it away? The point of life is to live it, not to have it taken away just because the God who gave you that life decides those around you are evil.

    My God doesn't take any direct hand in the world. He has given us everything we need and put into place what we need to take care of ourselves. He may help here and there, but doesn't actually involve Himself directly in the lives of men. And He certainly does not directly cause harm to people for vengeance or punishment. I believe in a God that is better than men. God judges people in the next life, not this one, for what we do in this one.
    Last edited by roguenuke; 06-01-12 at 03:54 AM.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  6. #196
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    Re: NAACP Backs Same-Sex Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    I'm sorry, but you're wrong. Believers will not be judged according to their sins. Jesus died on the cross for them so that, if we believe in Him, we do not have to be judged.
    Now, if you're speaking of the judgement regarding receiving rewards in heaven as a child of God, then that would be correct. But you aren't. You're speaking of being judged for our sins.
    Hard to argue who's rigth or wrong as neither one of us can actually prove it. But I did link scholars and doctrine who say they will be. Not that they woould be admitted, but that there will be a judgement in which all your done is revealed and you know how wrong you were and how much hurt you caused. And see, I don't care a single bit about reward or punishment. I figured I've done enough to be guilty of more than a few things, and anythign reward is just cake. I wouldn't do anything if I didn't think this was the way to live life. And in my reading of the book, I hold sway with not judging because that isn't my place. The book I read speaks of compassion coming to the law (that's what the entire cross thingie is about). And in the book I read, loving and being fair is what the good Christians strives to be.

    So you're half right. I'm not talking about rewards. But I'm also not talking about enterance into heaven either.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  7. #197
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    Re: NAACP Backs Same-Sex Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    So why couldn't those who wrote the Bible also have erred or lied?

    I may not have met those scientist, but I know that I can verify if what they are saying is true. Plus, I have seen the evidence for evolution. It doesn't take too much searching to see it. And I know from my experiences just living that it is nearly impossible that entire populations of people could all be evil. That just doesn't fit into reality.
    You can verify it? How? Are you a geologist? Are you a scientist? Or do you just have FAITH that they are correct? Do you just have FAITH that the internet isn't leading you wrong?
    As you have said on many different occassions, times were different back then. The population was spread out more and much thinner. A city could be out in the middle of nowhere with nothing around it. All humans are born sinners. We are all born "evil". Evil can be defined many ways but according to the Bible the tiniest of sins can send you to hell just as fast as Hitler. Why? Because by not accepting the Lord into your heart, you deny Him. Sins here on earth mean nothing compared to us denying him as our Creator and Savior. My argument here is that I believe an entire city could be evil. Especially back then when they were so isolated. I think it's very possible.

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Yes. Because why give people life just to take it away? The point of life is to live it, not to have it taken away just because the God who gave you that life decides those around you are evil.
    Life doesn't end here for believers. This is a mere speck of time in what is eternal life for us. Expand your horizon when thinking on this subject and you'll see what I mean.
    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    My God doesn't take any direct hand in the world. He has given us everything we need and put into place what we need to take care of ourselves. He may help here and there, but doesn't actually involve Himself directly in the lives of men. And He certainly does not directly cause harm to people for vengeance or punishment. I believe in a God that is better than men. God judges people in the next life, not this one, for what we do in this one.
    So your god does judge though?
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

  8. #198
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    Re: NAACP Backs Same-Sex Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Hard to argue who's rigth or wrong as neither one of us can actually prove it. But I did link scholars and doctrine who say they will be. Not that they woould be admitted, but that there will be a judgement in which all your done is revealed and you know how wrong you were and how much hurt you caused. And see, I don't care a single bit about reward or punishment. I figured I've done enough to be guilty of more than a few things, and anythign reward is just cake. I wouldn't do anything if I didn't think this was the way to live life. And in my reading of the book, I hold sway with not judging because that isn't my place. The book I read speaks of compassion coming to the law (that's what the entire cross thingie is about). And in the book I read, loving and being fair is what the good Christians strives to be.

    So you're half right. I'm not talking about rewards. But I'm also not talking about enterance into heaven either.
    Why would a loving God point out all of the hurt and pain you caused and then say "Okay, now that's over. Come on in!" That doesn't make sense at all. You see what I mean? Believers will receive rewards for their works as Christians and there will be a judgement for that. I don't know what those will be, only He does. I tend to think that just being there is awesome enough but I won't doubt Him lol.
    And I'm with you on the judgement thing. As I have gotten older I have realized that is the one thing, above all others, that turns people away from Christians. People feel that Christians will judge them as soon as them meet them. And that is true to some extent. A lot of Christians are very guilty of that. It really ticks me off to see these pastors get up in front of their church and say the things they do about homosexuals. I have no problem with them preaching that being gay is wrong. There is scripture to back that and it should be taught just like any other scripture needs to be. But the hateful things they say are way over the top and not what God would want. I tell you this. If I am ever in a church where this occurs, I will be the first one out of the door and hope that the pastor asks me why I'm leaving.
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

  9. #199
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    Re: NAACP Backs Same-Sex Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    You can verify it? How? Are you a geologist? Are you a scientist? Or do you just have FAITH that they are correct? Do you just have FAITH that the internet isn't leading you wrong?
    As you have said on many different occassions, times were different back then. The population was spread out more and much thinner. A city could be out in the middle of nowhere with nothing around it. All humans are born sinners. We are all born "evil". Evil can be defined many ways but according to the Bible the tiniest of sins can send you to hell just as fast as Hitler. Why? Because by not accepting the Lord into your heart, you deny Him. Sins here on earth mean nothing compared to us denying him as our Creator and Savior. My argument here is that I believe an entire city could be evil. Especially back then when they were so isolated. I think it's very possible.
    The problem you have is the fact that science disputes you and science means it is something that can be recreated. I can get the knowledge to be able to verify decay ages, or evolution, or tree lifespans or some of the other things that show the age of the Earth is really old. You cannot do the same with the Bible.

    One of the issues you seem unable to accept is that I believe that it is much more likely that those guys back in the day actually were either just writing their own experiences or what they thought they knew or they lied in an effort to control other people. I prefer logic, something I feel God gave to us to use, instead of believing men who had a clear and powerful reason to write and put out what they did, control of other people, for good or bad.

    Logic is my biggest evidence against the Bible. And not starting from the premise that the Bible is automatically the absolute word of God.

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    Life doesn't end here for believers. This is a mere speck of time in what is eternal life for us. Expand your horizon when thinking on this subject and you'll see what I mean.
    It doesn't end for what I believe either. In fact, it truly is just a small part of a soul's experience since I believe in reincarnation. But that doesn't mean I believe God would waste that life and opportunity for experience, by His choice, out of spite of vengeance. That sounds like something a man would be likely to believe God would be like a couple of thousand years ago because he couldn't otherwise explain why most of the people he knew, along with the plants and animals of that area, were being destroyed by water. So he decided to blame God.

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    So your god does judge though?
    After you each life, yes, everyone is judged for how they lived that life.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  10. #200
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    Re: NAACP Backs Same-Sex Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    Why would a loving God point out all of the hurt and pain you caused and then say "Okay, now that's over. Come on in!" That doesn't make sense at all. You see what I mean? Believers will receive rewards for their works as Christians and there will be a judgement for that. I don't know what those will be, only He does. I tend to think that just being there is awesome enough but I won't doubt Him lol.
    And I'm with you on the judgement thing. As I have gotten older I have realized that is the one thing, above all others, that turns people away from Christians. People feel that Christians will judge them as soon as them meet them. And that is true to some extent. A lot of Christians are very guilty of that. It really ticks me off to see these pastors get up in front of their church and say the things they do about homosexuals. I have no problem with them preaching that being gay is wrong. There is scripture to back that and it should be taught just like any other scripture needs to be. But the hateful things they say are way over the top and not what God would want. I tell you this. If I am ever in a church where this occurs, I will be the first one out of the door and hope that the pastor asks me why I'm leaving.
    Because knowledge is important. Without that knowledge, a person might evolved into a self righteous asshole who seeks to unfairly discrimnate against people like homosexuals, or feel superior enough to judge. The knowledge of what we've done grounds us in humility, to know that it is but by the grace of God that we are not elsewhere.

    As for scriputre to back that up, the best place to debunk that is at the library. Some very good books were written on that long ago that cast a lot of doubt on the scripture so oftened used. Many an interpretation is just plain wrong. But at worse, what the scripture really has to say on it is in doubt. I find it does no good to try and explain this to people who won't look, but if you have the desire to question, I suggest going to the library.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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