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Thread: NAACP backs gay marriage

  1. #181
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    Re: NAACP Backs Same-Sex Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    By judged, this is what I mean. If a person is a child of God, they will immediately be accepted into heaven upon death. No questions, no pointing out of their sins, nothing of that sort. If you read Revelations 11-12, which is in your source, it shows that the DEAD will be judged. Inidividuals going to Heaven are not considered dead because they were given everlasting life by the Lord when they accepted Him into their heart.
    This assumes that you are right about what God really considers sins or not. Because if you are wrong, then you most likely committed sins that you might not realize were sins and be judged for those things.

    I don't believe God is like the Bible describes. I believe He doesn't care two bits about people having sex unless the act is hurting someone. I don't believe that God requires people to believe in either the Bible or Jesus in order to reach heaven. I believe God looks down upon and even may consider it a sin to be unwilling to question your beliefs, particularly when there is some evidence to lead a person to question at least parts of what you are being told. So what if I'm right and not you? You would then be judged too.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  2. #182
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    Re: NAACP Backs Same-Sex Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    There is no way for you not to interpret the Bible. First of all, it has been translated from multiple languages to get into English. That requires some interpretation. Second, as I said, you have to look at how people of the time this was written would view things like same sex relationships and same sex sex that occurs for different reasons. Homosexuality, as a word, did not exist when the Bible scriptures were written. So someone just kinda guessed that word to be the right translation. You don't know if they are right and there are Biblical scholars who claim the translation is wrong.
    You fail to realize that the Dead Sea scrolls exist. Many studies have been done of current versions of Bibles. Good translations of the Bible, just like any other product in a free market, tend to rise to the top. Bible's such as the King James, New King James, North American Standard, etc have been vetted against the Dead Sea scrolls and found to be accurate. I will cede the fact that some minor words are different in those different versions of the Bible. However, the intent and purpose is not changed.
    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    I don't believe in the Bible. My God comes from inside me and the faith I have in my experiences and knowledge of the world. I don't feel the need to believe some men from thousands of years ago who wrote stuff down and claimed it was from God. I can think for myself.
    I am aware you don't believe in the Bible and I believe that is the crux of this entire debate.
    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    According to both the OT and the NT, men of the Bible and/or who wrote the Bible believed that God deemed women inferior in almost every way to men, including going so far as to demand that they should not be allowed to speak in church or teach the gospel.
    God was more than okay with killing men, women and children, particularly in the OT. If those stories are not needed or don't represent the same God, then why keep them in the Bible. Do you believe God changed between the OT and the NT?
    God is God. He was, is, and will always be. So yes, it's the same God. God Himself did kill a lot of people in the OT. However, look at some examples of who He killed. Take Jericho, for instance. Those people burnt their sons and daughters as sacrifices to their gods. God took their city and gave it to a righteous people, the Israelites. Sodom and Gomorrah is another example. God allowed Abraham to "talk Him down" to the agreement that if he could find 10 righteous people in those cities, that God would spare them. The only people that made it out were Lot and his children.
    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    And God himself, of the OT, committed genocide. He wiped out the entire human race according to one of those stories because they were all evil. He condemned the men, women, and children to die in Sodom to die for not being hospitable and/or turning from Him. He plagued a couple of kings and their families because Abraham and Sarah lied by not telling them she was his wife. God knew the kings didn't know this and yet He punished them anyway. That is wrong. And defending it by saying it was in the OT is a cop out. Again, did God change from the OT to the NT? Why?
    You answered your own question about why he killed the human race. Which He did not kill all of btw. Honestly, the only answer I can think of with my human mind about the second one is that if the King had been "walking" with God to begin with, the incident may not have happened. However, that is theory and I can't answer that. I won't act like I have the answer to everything. I have faith that my God is just and righteous and He did it for a justified reason.
    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Everyone is judged. Believers and non-believers. We will be judged on our actions, not our beliefs. How we lived our lives.
    According to Bible, this is incorrect. See the other post to Boo Radley about it.
    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    No. It is all about what we believe. The Bible is not a book of facts. It requires faith to believe that those in the Bible who claim to be speaking for God are really doing so. There is nothing that proves that they are in fact speaking for what God wants.
    To me, it is a book of facts. As I said above, no other book has been vetted like the Bible has.
    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    My mind is open. I can accept that you may be right, just as I can accept that many other religious beliefs may be right. I don't believe they are because my heart tells me that the God I believe in could not do things to people as described in the Bible. That sounds much more like something people would do or ascribe to God based on their own biases and beliefs, particularly during that time when those scriptures were written.
    He killed people. He is our Judge. Why is that hard to understand? Does your God allow everyone into his heaven? If so, you will be meeting Hitler and Stalin when you go. God has to judge. It's part of the job for lack of better words.
    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    You are in fact judging me by trying to tell me that your interpretation and/or beliefs about the Bible are the only ones that are valid because you believe them to be so.
    Actually, judging you would be me saying that you are an idiot for believing what you believe. I am not doing that. I am merely stating my beliefs versus yours about the Bible.
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

  3. #183
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    Re: NAACP Backs Same-Sex Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    You fail to realize that the Dead Sea scrolls exist. Many studies have been done of current versions of Bibles. Good translations of the Bible, just like any other product in a free market, tend to rise to the top. Bible's such as the King James, New King James, North American Standard, etc have been vetted against the Dead Sea scrolls and found to be accurate. I will cede the fact that some minor words are different in those different versions of the Bible. However, the intent and purpose is not changed.

    I am aware you don't believe in the Bible and I believe that is the crux of this entire debate.

    God is God. He was, is, and will always be. So yes, it's the same God. God Himself did kill a lot of people in the OT. However, look at some examples of who He killed. Take Jericho, for instance. Those people burnt their sons and daughters as sacrifices to their gods. God took their city and gave it to a righteous people, the Israelites. Sodom and Gomorrah is another example. God allowed Abraham to "talk Him down" to the agreement that if he could find 10 righteous people in those cities, that God would spare them. The only people that made it out were Lot and his children.

    You answered your own question about why he killed the human race. Which He did not kill all of btw. Honestly, the only answer I can think of with my human mind about the second one is that if the King had been "walking" with God to begin with, the incident may not have happened. However, that is theory and I can't answer that. I won't act like I have the answer to everything. I have faith that my God is just and righteous and He did it for a justified reason.

    According to Bible, this is incorrect. See the other post to Boo Radley about it.

    To me, it is a book of facts. As I said above, no other book has been vetted like the Bible has.

    He killed people. He is our Judge. Why is that hard to understand? Does your God allow everyone into his heaven? If so, you will be meeting Hitler and Stalin when you go. God has to judge. It's part of the job for lack of better words.

    Actually, judging you would be me saying that you are an idiot for believing what you believe. I am not doing that. I am merely stating my beliefs versus yours about the Bible.
    If the Bible was vetted, they did a horrible job at it. I have read it. It is contradictory and many of the stories absolutely do not have scientific evidence to support them. In fact, there are several that contradict scientific evidence, the flood/Ark, creation, and the people living centuries. We know that it takes two people to make a baby. If I were to believe the Bible, why should I not also believe the stories about the Greek Gods and what they supposedly did?

    I cannot believe a book that contradicts science and itself in certain places. I question why things are. It is how God made me. So I have to question, which is more likely God inspired a book that is contradicted by science in many places or much of the Bible was written with the biases and personal beliefs of those men who wrote those things at the time. Many may have had good intentions and even believed they were inspired by God. I don't.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  4. #184
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    Re: NAACP backs gay marriage

    Then Al Sharpton slayed the Jabbawakky and flew off to save narnia
    "Sometimes we must look beyond what we want to do what's best."

  5. #185
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    Re: NAACP Backs Same-Sex Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    If the Bible was vetted, they did a horrible job at it. I have read it. It is contradictory and many of the stories absolutely do not have scientific evidence to support them. In fact, there are several that contradict scientific evidence, the flood/Ark, creation, and the people living centuries. We know that it takes two people to make a baby. If I were to believe the Bible, why should I not also believe the stories about the Greek Gods and what they supposedly did?

    I cannot believe a book that contradicts science and itself in certain places. I question why things are. It is how God made me. So I have to question, which is more likely God inspired a book that is contradicted by science in many places or much of the Bible was written with the biases and personal beliefs of those men who wrote those things at the time. Many may have had good intentions and even believed they were inspired by God. I don't.
    A) Show me the contradictions.
    B) Science according to who? Many scientists have disputed the carbon dating that is used to dispute the Bible's claims. There has been no dispute of whether the events the Bible says happened really did happen. The dispute has always been the time frame it occured in.
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

  6. #186
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    Re: NAACP Backs Same-Sex Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    A) Show me the contradictions.
    B) Science according to who? Many scientists have disputed the carbon dating that is used to dispute the Bible's claims. There has been no dispute of whether the events the Bible says happened really did happen. The dispute has always been the time frame it occured in.
    Reputable scientists agree that the Earth is billions of years old and humans have been on the planet for around 200000 years, and that is just modern humans.

    Age of the Earth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Evidence against a recent creation - RationalWiki
    *note the references at the bottom of these with the links to evidences that support these articles

    There is absolutely zero evidence to support a world wide flood, plus it would be absolutely impossible for Noah to have fit every living animal on the planet plus enough food for all of them onto the Ark. Along with the fact that he would have had to make several stops along the way to put the proper animals onto the continents that they ended up on. They certainly didn't swim back to their proper homes.

    Problems with a Global Flood, 2nd edition

    There is absolutely no way that earlier humans lived centuries longer than we now live.

    Longevity, ageing, and life history of Homo sapiens
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  7. #187
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    Re: NAACP Backs Same-Sex Marriage

    Oh, and I'd like to know how the hell infants and small children can be considered evil and deserving of God's wrath as described in both the flood and Sodom stories? I really don't like the fact that God decided to kill off those innocent children just because of what their parents may have done. There is no way that children that young, particularly infants were really evil. Of course, there really is no logical reason to believe that every frickin' person or even just the men in one city were all evil except those of one family, let alone the entire world. It really defies logic.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  8. #188
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    Re: NAACP Backs Same-Sex Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    By judged, this is what I mean. If a person is a child of God, they will immediately be accepted into heaven upon death. No questions, no pointing out of their sins, nothing of that sort. If you read Revelations 11-12, which is in your source, it shows that the DEAD will be judged. Inidividuals going to Heaven are not considered dead because they were given everlasting life by the Lord when they accepted Him into their heart.
    Accepted? If truely a person of God. Not judged? No. We answer for what we've done. We see it and know it, learn our errors (like being unfair with homosexuals).

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  9. #189
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    Re: NAACP Backs Same-Sex Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Oh, and I'd like to know how the hell infants and small children can be considered evil and deserving of God's wrath as described in both the flood and Sodom stories? I really don't like the fact that God decided to kill off those innocent children just because of what their parents may have done. There is no way that children that young, particularly infants were really evil. Of course, there really is no logical reason to believe that every frickin' person or even just the men in one city were all evil except those of one family, let alone the entire world. It really defies logic.
    Small children are exempt from being responsible for their actions ie they are not required to have made the decision of whether to accept Christ into their heart or not. Those children automatically went to heaven. When a child is old enough to know the difference between right and wrong and understands the gravity of what God is, then he will face judgement. What age that is, I don't know. The Bible doesn't give an age. My guess, and it's only a guess, would be that God does it on a case by case basis. Some children are more mature and understand what's going on earlier than others. My son was 5 when he was saved and he fully understood why he was doing what he was doing.
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

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    Re: NAACP Backs Same-Sex Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Accepted? If truely a person of God. Not judged? No. We answer for what we've done. We see it and know it, learn our errors (like being unfair with homosexuals).
    I'm sorry, but you're wrong. Believers will not be judged according to their sins. Jesus died on the cross for them so that, if we believe in Him, we do not have to be judged.
    Now, if you're speaking of the judgement regarding receiving rewards in heaven as a child of God, then that would be correct. But you aren't. You're speaking of being judged for our sins.
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

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