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Thread: NAACP backs gay marriage

  1. #171
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    Re: NAACP Backs Same-Sex Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Does it really matter? Honestly I try not to kill anything without cause. Others may say that it only applies to humans. I personally apply it to every living thing.
    It matters because you said the entire Bible was up for interpretation. Are you saying you don't kill anything? You've never killed a bug? You've never set a mouse trap? We have to kill animals etc to survive. That's why they were put on this earth, for us to survive. I'm not saying we should just kill animals whenever we feel like it. I am very against killing an animal without the purpose of eating it or protecting yourself. The overall point is, of course that only applies to human beings.
    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    And you aren't? Whether same sex relationships are sinful or not in the eyes of God would really have very little effect on me since I'm not homosexual. However, I don't believe that the way we use "homosexual" today or the way we would view those passages against homosexuality are the same as those who wrote those passages many thousands of years ago actually viewed it. You yourself said that things should be taken in the views of those who wrote them, not as we see things now.
    Actually, I'm not. I reading it for what it says and not trying to overanalyze, overscrutinize, or fit it to my lifestyle. There are things I would like to do in my life that aren't allowed according to the Bible. I used to be an alcoholic. I would love to drink again. The Bible states that we can't be inebriated. So I don't. The Bible isn't meant to be interpreted by us or arranged to our lives. We arrange our lives to it because it is the word of God. No matter what you want it to say.

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    The actual term "homosexual" did not even exist when the Bible was originally written. And the Bible says that lying with men as men lie with women is wrong. Of course the Bible freely treats women as property of men. Women were less then men so a man lying with another man as if he were a woman would be wrong in the eyes of those men who wrote the Bible.
    Neither did the word dinosaur. It was called a leviathan. What's your point? Just because it wasn't called homosexual doesn't mean it was okay. The Bible treats people a certain way? I didn't know the Bible was capable of treating people a way. It isn't alive. I think you meant the people of the age treated women that way. Some of the people of this age genocide each other. I'm sure God is not okay with that. How about you?
    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Oh, and since many people before the mid to late 1900s did not view black people as really "men" then they felt completely justified in using blacks and even other races as slaves. Afterall, how can someone be a "manstealer" if the person they are using as a slave is not really considered a real man at all?
    Show me where in the Bible it says black people weren't men. Again, you're fitting the Bible to your theories instead of reading it for what it says. Also, see the above point about genocide.
    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    And there are other passages in the NT even that do condone slavery.

    Christian views on slavery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    This is cut and paste from the "proof" you provided:
    This article has multiple issues. Please help improve it or discuss these issues on the talk page.
    It needs additional citations for verification. Tagged since December 2010.
    It may require cleanup to meet Wikipedia's quality standards. Tagged since December 2010.
    Its neutrality is disputed. Tagged since March 2009.




    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    I didn't ask that. I didn't mention anything about God stopping bad things from happening. You said that you knew God was okay with your marriage just because you had been married to your wife for 10 years.
    Nope, never said that. I said I knew my marriage is blessed because both of us are redeemed children of God.
    I asked why would that matter. If God is not okay with your relationship, then you really wouldn't know that, even if you have a good marriage, until you are judged by God in heaven, just like same sex couples wouldn't really know either.
    I won't be judged. Only non-believers will be judged.
    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Personally, I absolutely believe neither interfaith nor same sex couples need worry about it. I think God is very much okay with people loving each other when that love causes no harm, as would be the case in both situations. This is just one of many reasons I cannot be Christian. I cannot believe that a just and loving God would condemn people for loving each other and making commitments that do no harm. I can easily believe that a bunch of guys from thousands of years ago could easily condemn people for this though.
    You summed up my argument for me. You said "Personally, I absolutely believe.....". I hate to tell you this but it doesn't matter what we believe. It matters what is written in the Bible. The Bible says otherwise to what you believe. If you don't want to believe it, that's fine. It's your choice to do so. And I'm not going to be that guy that says you will burn in hell. I will simply say please keep your mind open. This is coming from someone that is not perfect either and doesn't claim to be. I am not judging you by any means. It's not my place.
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
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  2. #172
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    Re: NAACP Backs Same-Sex Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    I won't be judged. Only non-believers will be judged.
    You might want to recheck that:

    Immediately upon death each soul undergoes the particular judgment, and depending upon the state of the person's soul, goes to heaven, purgatory, or hell.

    Last Judgment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  3. #173
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    Re: NAACP Backs Same-Sex Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    It matters because you said the entire Bible was up for interpretation. Are you saying you don't kill anything? You've never killed a bug? You've never set a mouse trap? We have to kill animals etc to survive. That's why they were put on this earth, for us to survive. I'm not saying we should just kill animals whenever we feel like it. I am very against killing an animal without the purpose of eating it or protecting yourself. The overall point is, of course that only applies to human beings.
    Apparently you missed the part "without cause". To me it applies to every living thing, not just humans. My family finds it funny that I can't kill bugs unless they really are threatening me (such as some spiders we have had in our garage/house).

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    Actually, I'm not. I reading it for what it says and not trying to overanalyze, overscrutinize, or fit it to my lifestyle. There are things I would like to do in my life that aren't allowed according to the Bible. I used to be an alcoholic. I would love to drink again. The Bible states that we can't be inebriated. So I don't. The Bible isn't meant to be interpreted by us or arranged to our lives. We arrange our lives to it because it is the word of God. No matter what you want it to say.
    There is no way for you not to interpret the Bible. First of all, it has been translated from multiple languages to get into English. That requires some interpretation. Second, as I said, you have to look at how people of the time this was written would view things like same sex relationships and same sex sex that occurs for different reasons. Homosexuality, as a word, did not exist when the Bible scriptures were written. So someone just kinda guessed that word to be the right translation. You don't know if they are right and there are Biblical scholars who claim the translation is wrong.

    I don't believe in the Bible. My God comes from inside me and the faith I have in my experiences and knowledge of the world. I don't feel the need to believe some men from thousands of years ago who wrote stuff down and claimed it was from God. I can think for myself.

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    Neither did the word dinosaur. It was called a leviathan. What's your point? Just because it wasn't called homosexual doesn't mean it was okay. The Bible treats people a certain way? I didn't know the Bible was capable of treating people a way. It isn't alive. I think you meant the people of the age treated women that way. Some of the people of this age genocide each other. I'm sure God is not okay with that. How about you?
    According to both the OT and the NT, men of the Bible and/or who wrote the Bible believed that God deemed women inferior in almost every way to men, including going so far as to demand that they should not be allowed to speak in church or teach the gospel.

    God was more than okay with killing men, women and children, particularly in the OT. If those stories are not needed or don't represent the same God, then why keep them in the Bible. Do you believe God changed between the OT and the NT?

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    Show me where in the Bible it says black people weren't men. Again, you're fitting the Bible to your theories instead of reading it for what it says. Also, see the above point about genocide.

    This is cut and paste from the "proof" you provided:
    This article has multiple issues. Please help improve it or discuss these issues on the talk page.
    It needs additional citations for verification. Tagged since December 2010.
    It may require cleanup to meet Wikipedia's quality standards. Tagged since December 2010.
    Its neutrality is disputed. Tagged since March 2009.
    Do you not understand that this is how many other people viewed the Bible and blacks? Not me. Those for slavery and against interracial marriage used the Bible, specific passages from the Bible in fact, to justify themselves and their actions/bigotry. Now, many read those things differently. There are some who still believe that their translation/interpretation of those passages though justified that bigotry from before. Right or wrong, it is still about interpretations.

    And God himself, of the OT, committed genocide. He wiped out the entire human race according to one of those stories because they were all evil. He condemned the men, women, and children to die in Sodom to die for not being hospitable and/or turning from Him. He plagued a couple of kings and their families because Abraham and Sarah lied by not telling them she was his wife. God knew the kings didn't know this and yet He punished them anyway. That is wrong. And defending it by saying it was in the OT is a cop out. Again, did God change from the OT to the NT? Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    I won't be judged. Only non-believers will be judged.
    Everyone is judged. Believers and non-believers. We will be judged on our actions, not our beliefs. How we lived our lives.

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    You summed up my argument for me. You said "Personally, I absolutely believe.....". I hate to tell you this but it doesn't matter what we believe. It matters what is written in the Bible. The Bible says otherwise to what you believe. If you don't want to believe it, that's fine. It's your choice to do so. And I'm not going to be that guy that says you will burn in hell. I will simply say please keep your mind open. This is coming from someone that is not perfect either and doesn't claim to be. I am not judging you by any means. It's not my place.
    No. It is all about what we believe. The Bible is not a book of facts. It requires faith to believe that those in the Bible who claim to be speaking for God are really doing so. There is nothing that proves that they are in fact speaking for what God wants.

    My mind is open. I can accept that you may be right, just as I can accept that many other religious beliefs may be right. I don't believe they are because my heart tells me that the God I believe in could not do things to people as described in the Bible. That sounds much more like something people would do or ascribe to God based on their own biases and beliefs, particularly during that time when those scriptures were written.

    You are in fact judging me by trying to tell me that your interpretation and/or beliefs about the Bible are the only ones that are valid because you believe them to be so.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: NAACP Backs Same-Sex Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Jredbaron96 View Post
    If you want, look up all those hundreds of reports and studies. The APS CREATED that to collect the information, now conduct more experimentation.

    And that's one of nine. Keep trying, but the data's there.
    Burden of proof is on the affirmative.

    It's not my job to make your argument.

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    Re: NAACP Backs Same-Sex Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    There is over 30 years of evidence on this matter. If you can't find it, then it is because you aren't looking very hard.
    It's not my job to look one ounce. Any looking I do would be a favor, not an obligation.

    Again, you're just making a bunch of appeals to authority. If Dr. Soandso says the sky is green, are we supposed to believe him too?

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    Re: NAACP Backs Same-Sex Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Daktoria View Post
    Burden of proof is on the affirmative.

    It's not my job to make your argument.
    I successfully proved my points.

    You're only reply was you not wanting to look at the source data.
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    Re: NAACP Backs Same-Sex Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Jredbaron96 View Post
    I successfully proved my points.

    You're only reply was you not wanting to look at the source data.
    My reply is you didn't show the source data.

    It isn't my job to go digging in your treasure chest to find a pot of gold.

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    Re: NAACP Backs Same-Sex Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Daktoria View Post
    My reply is you didn't show the source data.

    It isn't my job to go digging in your treasure chest to find a pot of gold.
    Jesus ****ing Christ the data's here:

    http://www.psychology.org.au/Assets/...Lit-Review.pdf

    Page 26.
    "Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough."
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    Re: NAACP Backs Same-Sex Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Daktoria View Post
    It's not my job to look one ounce. Any looking I do would be a favor, not an obligation.

    Again, you're just making a bunch of appeals to authority. If Dr. Soandso says the sky is green, are we supposed to believe him too?
    Oh good lord. I posted studies under the quote box.

    You are what I like to call, "The False Scientist". A person on the internet who gets off on pretending to be scientific. In reality you don't care what the science says, you simply will argue that there is no evidence to support the contrary view and the more evidence a person provides, the more deliberate you will be to ignore it or you will move the burden of proof higher and higher.

    I'm not going to waste my time trying to prove to you that same sex couples are just as good as opposite sex couples at raising children because you don't care and there is no way I could convince you of that case because you don't want to believe it.

    I'm just going to let you continue to believe whatever you want to believe and I'll let reality sort it out. And since I know the evidence I know you will eventually be the one looking like an idiot holding to a view that same sex couples are inferior parents when it becomes more and more apparent in society that same sex couples are doing just as good a job. That is what I love about time and reality, it eventually sorts out the idiots.
    Last edited by CriticalThought; 05-30-12 at 07:42 PM.
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  10. #180
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    Re: NAACP Backs Same-Sex Marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    You might want to recheck that:

    Immediately upon death each soul undergoes the particular judgment, and depending upon the state of the person's soul, goes to heaven, purgatory, or hell.

    Last Judgment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    By judged, this is what I mean. If a person is a child of God, they will immediately be accepted into heaven upon death. No questions, no pointing out of their sins, nothing of that sort. If you read Revelations 11-12, which is in your source, it shows that the DEAD will be judged. Inidividuals going to Heaven are not considered dead because they were given everlasting life by the Lord when they accepted Him into their heart.
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

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