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Thread: Über Rich Renouncing U.S Citizenship as IRS Cracks Down on Tax Evaders [W:209]

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    Re: Über Rich Renouncing U.S Citizenship as IRS Cracks Down on Tax Evaders [W:209]

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    what have your last several posts on this thread been about
    The hopeless nature of your attempts to state and defend anything even remotely relevant to the topic. Your poor little hurt feelings are about all we are being exposed to here. Not that a lot more than that was ever being expected.

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    Re: Über Rich Renouncing U.S Citizenship as IRS Cracks Down on Tax Evaders [W:209]

    Quote Originally Posted by Texmex View Post
    I really don't care if you are an attorney or not; you don't act like an attorney. No, I guess you do act like an attorney, too bad.
    He regularly betrays himself in many ways on many fronts. Apparently, there is no recognition of the fact that bad acting earns worse reviews than no acting at all.

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    Re: Über Rich Renouncing U.S Citizenship as IRS Cracks Down on Tax Evaders [W:209]

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    but not on investment income

    if the best you can do is point to the law then I can to

    that is a really lame argument btw
    Which is a glaring reason why we need to get rid of the discriminatory and preferential rates for investment income which disproportionately benefit higher income people who have lots of money to invest in long term capital gains.

    As many times as they have been challenged, the defenders of such privilege have NEVER been able to mount a fact based defense for such preferential rates.
    __________________________________________________ _
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    Re: Über Rich Renouncing U.S Citizenship as IRS Cracks Down on Tax Evaders [W:209]

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Id rather have a government that was limited to its proper powers meaning taxes would be much much much lower.
    LOL! To our collective injury and detriment, we've been trying to get by here with pretty much the smallest public sector of any developed economy in the world, and you think we should try getting by with much much much less.

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    but if you cannot pay taxes or pay more taxes your first inclination should be to demand less government rather than demanding more government that others should pay for
    See, the absurd implication of your "thinking" is that the government should take your taxes and then turn around and send you back a check for the very same amount. That is the only way in which people will not end up paying for goods and services provided to someone else.

    Meanwhile, the entire purpose of taxes is and always has been to accomplish income and wealth redistribution. An ability to accomplish income and wealth redistribution is in fact one of the central reasons why human beings form societies at all. Cavemen knew this. The people before cavemen knew this. All of them had a more modern approach than you do.

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    Re: Über Rich Renouncing U.S Citizenship as IRS Cracks Down on Tax Evaders [W:209]

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    do you really want people like me who make between 500K and a few million paying the same rates as the middle class for FED Income tax? I sure wish I did,
    Gee, for a rich guy, your understanding of progressive taxation is pretty shabby. Since it's pretty apparent, most of that group actually recognizes that they indeed pay exactly the same tax rates as the middle class. That would be 10% on the first $8,700 of taxable income, 15% on the next $26,650, 25% on the next $50,300, 28% on the next $93,000, 33% on the next $209,700, and 35% on everything after that. The rich don't pay different rates. They merely make a whole lot more money. The average income of the top 1% is 100 times the average income of the bottom 20%. But they both pay taxes at the same rates.

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    Re: Über Rich Renouncing U.S Citizenship as IRS Cracks Down on Tax Evaders [W:209]

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    Umm I didnt say that...I said you should be paying a flat 35% like you should...no loopholes no tax havens...just as the middleclass pay their tax rate...
    The 35% rate is a marginal rate that applies only to taxable income above $388,350. No matter who you are or how much you (pretend to) make, income below that amount is taxed at the rates I set out just above.
    Last edited by Cardinal Fang; 05-24-12 at 10:18 AM.

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    Re: Über Rich Renouncing U.S Citizenship as IRS Cracks Down on Tax Evaders [W:209]

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    why should I pay 35% on my next dollar when most others do not...
    Because those others whom you so much love to loathe have not in fact accrued the $388,350 necessary to make one eligible to pay a 35% tax rate on any dollar at all. I realize that you are not really very good with money matters, but let me assure you that having 388,350 extra dollars rattling around in your back pocket allows one to afford a whole lot of things, one of which is a modestly higher tax rate on any taxable income you might manage to come up with that is beyond that amount.

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    ...and why should I pay 35% on investment income that is been diminished by inflation, risk or has already been taxed once when you don't on yours?
    Inflation is not a risk, it's a certainty, and an absence of it would not be a good thing. But surely as a rich person, you must be aware that inflation risk is one of the things that is built into your returns on investment. You are in effect being paid for inflation, whether it occurs or not. And of course, everything is taxed more than once. I don't know what nincompoop can possibly have put into your head the notion that you are somehow to be protected from that.
    Last edited by Cardinal Fang; 05-24-12 at 10:43 AM.

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    Re: Über Rich Renouncing U.S Citizenship as IRS Cracks Down on Tax Evaders [W:209]

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    As many times as they have been challenged, the defenders of such privilege have NEVER been able to mount a fact based defense for such preferential rates.
    Actually, there are plenty of perfectly reasonable and fact-based arguments for having differing tax rates applied to income from differing sources. It's just that you won't be hearing any of them from TD. First of all, I'm sure he doesn't know what they are, and second of all, I'm sure he would find them all too liberal for his liking. After all, the government shouldn't be in the business of picking winners, you know.

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    Re: Über Rich Renouncing U.S Citizenship as IRS Cracks Down on Tax Evaders [W:209]

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal Fang View Post
    The hopeless nature of your attempts to state and defend anything even remotely relevant to the topic. Your poor little hurt feelings are about all we are being exposed to here. Not that a lot more than that was ever being expected.
    assuming facts not in evidence-your idiotic claims about my feelings are not relevant to this thread and are based on your assumptions that have no merit

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal Fang View Post
    He regularly betrays himself in many ways on many fronts. Apparently, there is no recognition of the fact that bad acting earns worse reviews than no acting at all.
    More assumptions based on lies. What you are really saying is you don't agree with my position so you whine about it

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Which is a glaring reason why we need to get rid of the discriminatory and preferential rates for investment income which disproportionately benefit higher income people who have lots of money to invest in long term capital gains.

    As many times as they have been challenged, the defenders of such privilege have NEVER been able to mount a fact based defense for such preferential rates.
    You want preferential treatment when it hurts the rich. You have never been able to explain why the rich should pay more other than saying they can or that the law provides for that yet when the same set of laws provides for a different rate structure for investment income you whine about that too. Your only consistency is wanting the rich to pay even more because it benefits your agenda and your masters

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal Fang View Post
    LOL! To our collective injury and detriment, we've been trying to get by here with pretty much the smallest public sector of any developed economy in the world, and you think we should try getting by with much much much less.


    See, the absurd implication of your "thinking" is that the government should take your taxes and then turn around and send you back a check for the very same amount. That is the only way in which people will not end up paying for goods and services provided to someone else.

    Meanwhile, the entire purpose of taxes is and always has been to accomplish income and wealth redistribution. An ability to accomplish income and wealth redistribution is in fact one of the central reasons why human beings form societies at all. Cavemen knew this. The people before cavemen knew this. All of them had a more modern approach than you do.
    Your claim that we have a smaller public sector than the nations you want us to emulate is your personal preference for more government. that is not a valid argument as to why we should emulate more soclalist nations. As to taxes-that is not correct. many taxes are not designed to redistribute wealth but merely to pay for services. gasoline taxes for example.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal Fang View Post
    Gee, for a rich guy, your understanding of progressive taxation is pretty shabby. Since it's pretty apparent, most of that group actually recognizes that they indeed pay exactly the same tax rates as the middle class. That would be 10% on the first $8,700 of taxable income, 15% on the next $26,650, 25% on the next $50,300, 28% on the next $93,000, 33% on the next $209,700, and 35% on everything after that. The rich don't pay different rates. They merely make a whole lot more money. The average income of the top 1% is 100 times the average income of the bottom 20%. But they both pay taxes at the same rates.


    more nonsense, the rich pay more on the next dollar they earn than the poor-your arrogant attempts to claim I don't understand the tax levels is nothing more than your constant and usual theme to pretend you are better educated than EVERYONE you disagree with.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal Fang View Post
    Because those others whom you so much love to loathe have not in fact accrued the $388,350 necessary to make one eligible to pay a 35% tax rate on any dollar at all. I realize that you are not really very good with money matters, but let me assure you that having 388,350 extra dollars rattling around in your back pocket allows one to afford a whole lot of things, one of which is a modestly higher tax rate on any taxable income you might manage to come up with that is beyond that amount.


    Inflation is not a risk, it's a certainty, and an absence of it would not be a good thing. But surely as a rich person, you must be aware that inflation risk is one of the things that is built into your returns on investment. You are in effect being paid for inflation, whether it occurs or not. And of course, everything is taxed more than once. I don't know what nincompoop can possibly have put into your head the notion that you are somehow to be protected from that.


    more nonsese-based on your belief that taxes should be based purely on "ability to pay" which is a philosophy that many of us reject. and salary is not taxed more than once unlike dividends so it appears the "nimcompoop BS is in your camp


    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal Fang View Post
    Actually, there are plenty of perfectly reasonable and fact-based arguments for having differing tax rates applied to income from differing sources. It's just that you won't be hearing any of them from TD. First of all, I'm sure he doesn't know what they are, and second of all, I'm sure he would find them all too liberal for his liking. After all, the government shouldn't be in the business of picking winners, you know.

    Again more of the arrogant claims about what I don't know based on the idiotic assumption if I damn the current system it must be due to a lack of knowledge. This is typical from the effete far leftwing elite who dismiss anyone who objects to more government as being benighted and ignorant. A necessary defense mechanism for the parasitic left

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    Re: Über Rich Renouncing U.S Citizenship as IRS Cracks Down on Tax Evaders [W:209]

    from Turtle

    You want preferential treatment when it hurts the rich. You have never been able to explain why the rich should pay more other than saying they can or that the law provides for that yet when the same set of laws provides for a different rate structure for investment income you whine about that too. Your only consistency is wanting the rich to pay even more because it benefits your agenda and your masters


    It has been explained to you and you have been schooled on this matter for more times than are calculable.

    Again, you are confusing two very very different things. You are confusing apples with cinderblocks and you cannot seem to grasp why you keep chipping your teeth on that hard grey pie filling.

    Income tax rates applied to different levels of income is one thing.

    Discriminatory preferential treatment for the same amount of money going into a persons pocket is a completely different thing.

    They are two separate things and two separate issues.

    Of course, the rich do this in serving their master- Mammon.

    If I put before you three piles of one million dollars cash each , one from wages, one from capital gains, and one from inheritance, nobody could tell which is which with any degree of accuracy. It is all a million dollars and it all goes into a persons pocket as earnings.

    But one person will pay over $300,000 in tax on his million while the second will pay but less than half of that amount in tax while the third pays ZERO. That is a travesty and a tremendous injustice.

    It must be stopped and it must be stopped ASAP.
    __________________________________________________ _
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