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Thread: Osama Bin Laden Raid Wasn't Based On CIA Torture Interrogations, Senators Say

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden Raid Wasn't Based On CIA Torture Interrogations, Senators Say

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    To me it doesn't matter very much how the CIA obtained the lead that ultimately led to OBL's death.

    Feinstein and Levin are only bringing this matter up again because they want to ensure the public understands that EIT, though successful in revealing needed intel, didn't provide a concrete positive ID of the courier. It's samantics really.

    "Oh, the EITs used by the GWBush Admin (which go against the Geneva Convention) really didn't yeild "direct" intel that led to OBL's secret compound. It wasn't until intelligence officials from the Obama Admin began combing through classified reports, testimony, etc., did we ping on the fact that OBL was using a courier to smuggle info/videos to and from his compound. Once "WE" were able to identify the courier, we were able to find OBL and kill him."

    Again, samantics...

    I really don't care whether the courier was identified by name or if it was learned early on that OBL used multiple couriers or sent info/video by courier pigeon. Bottom line is the World's #1 terrorist is now fish food....unless you believe the story that some fisherman hooked his body on some deepwater fishing expedition.
    Some of us think the ends does not always justify the means.
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    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden Raid Wasn't Based On CIA Torture Interrogations, Senators Say

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Some of us think the ends does not always justify the means.
    Fair enough. And then there are those of us that do.

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden Raid Wasn't Based On CIA Torture Interrogations, Senators Say

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    well sure... everybody shoots for validation in the political world.

    but it's not revisionist history to say the Khalid Shiek Mohammed gave up information on the courier after waterboarding... that's just plain old fact.

    it doesn't mean that they couldn't have gotten their hands on that information in other ways, though... it just saying it is what it is.
    I can't find verifiable evidence that the courier was found as a result of tortue.
    Most of the individuals that claim it led to the capture are generally Bush advisors.

    CIA Director Leon Panetta told the Arizona senator that Khalid Sheik Mohammed, who was waterboarded 183 times, did not provide the information that eventually led to bin Laden.

    “The first mention of Abu Ahmed al-Kuwaiti — the nickname of the al-Qaeda courier who ultimately led us to bin Laden — as well as a description of him as an important member of al-Qaeda, came from a detainee held in another country, who we believe was not tortured. None of the three detainees who were waterboarded provided Abu Ahmed’s real name, his whereabouts or an accurate description of his role in al-Qaeda,” McCain wrote.

    “In fact, the use of ‘enhanced interrogation techniques’ on Khalid Sheik Mohammed produced false and misleading information.”
    I believe even Senator McCain has said waterboarding led to the capture of the carrier is false.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden Raid Wasn't Based On CIA Torture Interrogations, Senators Say

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    You are a true "believer."
    Believer in historical fact, yes.
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    Re: Osama Bin Laden Raid Wasn't Based On CIA Torture Interrogations, Senators Say

    Quote Originally Posted by Meathead View Post
    Fair enough. And then there are those of us that do.
    The ends justifying the means was a main premise of both Communism and Neoconservatism.
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    Re: Osama Bin Laden Raid Wasn't Based On CIA Torture Interrogations, Senators Say

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    The ends justifying the means was a main premise of both Communism and Neoconservatism.
    So true...the ends justifies the means opens virtually everything up to being possible. Morality doesn't exist under such an idea.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden Raid Wasn't Based On CIA Torture Interrogations, Senators Say

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    The ends justifying the means was a main premise of both Communism and Neoconservatism.
    General leftism as well.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden Raid Wasn't Based On CIA Torture Interrogations, Senators Say

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    So true...the ends justifies the means opens virtually everything up to being possible. Morality doesn't exist under such an idea.
    Sure it does, only it's the notion of "morality" held by the rulers.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden Raid Wasn't Based On CIA Torture Interrogations, Senators Say

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    General leftism as well.
    Yet we're in a conversation where torture is considered kosher by conservatives....
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: Osama Bin Laden Raid Wasn't Based On CIA Torture Interrogations, Senators Say

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    Yet we're in a conversation where torture is considered kosher by conservatives....
    Doesn't change the fact that much of leftism is premised on the end justifying the means, particularly when it comes to Constitutional justification.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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