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Anti-Bullying Speaker Curses Christian Teens[W:165; 667]

Gimmesometruth said:
What a total cave, you just lost a lot of respect.

You have nothing to stand on when and if someone in the future puts you down because of their "christian" beliefs.
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I was wrong, I admitted it, we're all human it happens. But in no way does me accepting that make it okay for me to attacked.
 
Re: Anti-Bullying Speaker Curses Christian Teens

ThePlayDrive said:
I heard it much differently than you then.


Not dumb. Most anti-gay bigotry in this country is rooted in Christian opinions on homosexuality. If this was a speech about attacking the root causes of bullying and specifically gay bullying, it would be dumb to leave out one of the main root causes. He could have been more classy about it, but then again, nobody would care about his presentation if it hadn't been about Christianity.
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The root cause isn't Christians, it's people who act like assholes, that happen to be Christian.
If they're bullying gays, they're likely bullying other, non gay people too.

The religious belief really has nothing to do with, it's merely a poor justification.
 
Gimmesometruth said:
You learn to hate, the hate comes from teaching. The primary source of hatred towards homosexuality in the US is the Bible.
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The problem with this, though is simple logic. Perhaps much of the hate towards homosexuality comes from religion, but that does NOT mean that much of the religious hate those who are homosexual. This is why attacking a group or a belief system is illogical. The belief system is not the issue. What SOME people take from that belief system IS the issue.
 
Josie said:
Excuse me? You can believe something is morally wrong and not BULLY the people who choose it. That's a ridiculous statement you made.
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It's actually a perfectly legitimate statement. If you teach kids that others are less than them, then a lot of those kids you teach will go straight to bullying those kids. You are right that you can teach kids to believe something to be morally wrong and not bully, but that reality coexists with my statement so I have no idea why you're presenting it as if it's a counterargument.

Also, being gay is not a choice so I don't know why you're talking about "choosing" things. Add that to the list of arguments that hurt gay teens in today's society.
 
Gimmesometruth said:
I see, when giving a speech about the root causes of the bullying, you should avoid talking about the root causes.

Brilliant!
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With all due respect, talking about the root causes of bullying is one thing. Doing it by bullying, is another. There is a way to discuss it, without resorting to it.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
The problem with this, though is simple logic. Perhaps much of the hate towards homosexuality comes from religion, but that does NOT mean that much of the religious hate those who are homosexual. This is why attacking a group or a belief system is illogical. The belief system is not the issue. What SOME people take from that belief system IS the issue.
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Yeah, but he didn't attack the entire belief system, he attacked people's misuse of the belief system.
 
Re: Anti-Bullying Speaker Curses Christian Teens

Harry Guerrilla said:
Right and barring their interest in journalism, they're all the same?
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WTF? Red herring...straw....what is your point?
They aren't and attacking some of them, who happen to be religious (in some form or another) is wise?
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Again, if saying " you are a hypocrite if you are a christian and condemn homosexuals" is "unwise", then simple challenges to ones beliefs must be avoided...or else one might have to think. Heaven forbid.
 
Re: Anti-Bullying Speaker Curses Christian Teens

Harry Guerrilla said:
The root cause isn't Christians, it's people who act like assholes, that happen to be Christian.
If they're bullying gays, they're likely bullying other, non gay people too.

The religious belief really has nothing to do with, it's merely a poor justification.
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Actually the religious belief has a lot to do with it just like white supremacist beliefs have a lot to do with why some white supremacists act on their bigotry as well. It's amazing to me how you're so willing to give bigoted Christian beliefs such a pass.
 
Gina said:
With all due respect, talking about the root causes of bullying is one thing. Doing it by bullying, is another. There is a way to discuss it, without resorting to it.
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Yeah, the challenge "you are a hypocrite if you are a christian and condemn homosexuals" is so "bullying"!

I can't believe you too have bought into this BS.

Unfriend me, please.
 
ThePlayDrive said:
It's actually a perfectly legitimate statement. If you teach kids that others are less than them, then a lot of those kids you teach will go straight to bullying those kids. You are right that you can teach kids to believe something to be morally wrong and not bully, but that reality coexists with my statement so I have no idea why you're presenting it as if it's a counterargument.

Also, being gay is not a choice so I don't know why you're talking about "choosing" things. Add that to the list of arguments that hurt gay teens in today's society.
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Teaching that a certain action is a sin isn't teaching that people who sin are "less" than anyone else. All Christians have read Romans: For ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. Harry is right. It's not a Christian thing - it's an asshole thing.
 
Gina said:
With all due respect, talking about the root causes of bullying is one thing. Doing it by bullying, is another. There is a way to discuss it, without resorting to it.
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Exactly. A curse-filled screed is not the way to open a real dialogue.
 
ThePlayDrive said:
I agree that the way he said it was not at all conducive to discussion. I've said many times to atheists on this board that when they say things like "imaginary friend" and such, they get negative reactions because of how, not what, they said. However, in this case, we're talking about bigotry that stems from inconsistent and in turn, irrational, beliefs - the belief that what the Bible says about homosexuality is correct, but that we can just ignore what it says about slavery and other things.

If he had spoken in the same manner about Bible-based rationalizations for slavery or racism, I highly doubt people would have a problem with what he said, but for some reason, people think that Bible-based rationalizations of anti-gay bigotry ought not be criticized in the same manner. That's hypocrisy and I don't sympathize with it,
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I cant disagree with you or agree...because ive never experienced any religious hatred towards gays...I was never seen it nor been a part of it...So I cant relate to what your saying...all i can relate to is what the speaker was saying and how he was saying it....and he was WRONG and the kids were absolutely right in walking out on him...none of those kids showed any religious bigotry or were showing any...he had no reason to do what he did....I think he was just doin the false courage thing and chest puffing...but lets talk about this...HOW DID HE MAKE OUT in his quest to convince high school kids christians...that bullying gays is wrong...just HOW DID HE MAKE OUT what he did was make things a whole lot worse...because those kids will never be as receptive as they should be to any speaker trying to send a message....he was wrong period and there is no excusing it.
 
Re: Anti-Bullying Speaker Curses Christian Teens

ThePlayDrive said:
Actually the religious belief has a lot to do with it just like white supremacist beliefs have a lot to do with why some white supremacists act on their bigotry as well. It's amazing to me how you're so willing to give bigoted Christian beliefs such a pass.
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Were the members of Savage's audience all such "bigoted Christians"? Or was what he said counterproductive, creating listener rebellion?
 
nota bene said:
Exactly. A curse-filled screed is not the way to open a real dialogue.
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Exactly. It is certainly a sure way to close it though.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
The problem with this, though is simple logic. Perhaps much of the hate towards homosexuality comes from religion, but that does NOT mean that much of the religious hate those who are homosexual. This is why attacking a group or a belief system is illogical. The belief system is not the issue. What SOME people take from that belief system IS the issue.
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Those who know that the Bible is wrong on condemning homosexuals are not offended by the claim of hypocrisy, they understand that logic. Those who cannot handle it are those who have not come to terms with the fact the the Bible is full of errors, something that should not be taken literally, something that should not be swallowed whole.
 
if the speech was meant to be about gay equality... what he said was fine and dandy.
but as an anti-bullying speech, he failed miserably... he became a bully.


personally, I don't put much stock in this current anti-bullying schtick going on in this country....so i'm not terribly offended when it falls flat on it's face like it did here.


anyways, the message those kids learned ( and others here too) was that bullying is bad, unless you agree with the bully's agenda...then it's fine.
way to go Savage, you defeated your own alleged agenda( anti-bully agenda), dumbass.


( who is the dumbass that invited Savage to a an anti-bully thing anyways?.. do they not know who he is?)
 
ThePlayDrive said:
Yeah, but he didn't attack the entire belief system, he attacked people's misuse of the belief system.
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I was not addressing the video. I was addressing the tenor and content of the post of which I was responding.
 
Gimmesometruth said:
Yeah, the challenge "you are a hypocrite if you are a christian and condemn homosexuals" is so "bullying"!

I can't believe you too have bought into this BS.

Unfriend me, please.
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Using the language and attitude he did, is bullying. I wouldn't put up with it were someone using the same tone and same character of words to attempt to change my mind.

Your choice about friending. I am friends with a number of people with whom I disagree and therefore see agreement as no condition on which to base my friendships.
 
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Re: Anti-Bullying Speaker Curses Christian Teens

ThePlayDrive said:
Actually the religious belief has a lot to do with it just like white supremacist beliefs have a lot to do with why some white supremacists act on their bigotry as well. It's amazing to me how you're so willing to give bigoted Christian beliefs such a pass.
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TPD, would you say Jesus Christ was a bigot?
 
Re: Anti-Bullying Speaker Curses Christian Teens

ThePlayDrive said:
Most anti-gay bigotry in this country is rooted in Christian opinions on homosexuality.
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The "root", is in homosexuals being different, or if you will, outside the norm.
 
Re: Anti-Bullying Speaker Curses Christian Teens

ThePlayDrive said:
Actually the religious belief has a lot to do with it just like white supremacist beliefs have a lot to do with why some white supremacists act on their bigotry as well. It's amazing to me how you're so willing to give bigoted Christian beliefs such a pass.
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I give them a "pass" just like I do other religions.
I don't believe Muslims should be condemned en mass, for the actions of a few.

Individuals make choices, sometimes they use religion to justify their beliefs.
It doesn't make the individual less responsible and the religion more responsible.
The religion is a thing, it doesn't speak and act on it's own accord.
 
Your Star said:
I was wrong, I admitted it, we're all human it happens. But in no way does me accepting that make it okay for me to attacked.
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You got that right...:)
 
Josie said:
Teaching that a certain action is a sin isn't teaching that people who sin are "less" than anyone else. All Christians have read Romans: For ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. Harry is right.
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Which is why I said in my original comment, "a lot of people who teach their children that homosexuality is a sin and bad and that gay people can't get married" and not just "teaching that a certain action is a sin". Unfortunately, teaching your children that they are worthy of marriage, but gay people aren't is teaching them that gay people are less than them. Moreover, as Savage pointed out, there aren't entire movements dedicated banning the eating of shellfish, which is also an abomination, so obviously a lot of people think what gay people do is super special and much more sinful than the mussels they ate last weekend.

I agree, though, that one can believe homosexual acts are sins and not believe that gay people are less than them, but that coexists with what I said. It's not a counterargument.

It's not a Christian thing - it's an asshole thing.
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Right, let's just pretend beliefs aren't involved in bullying at all. White supremacists who bully black kids are just doing an "asshole thing" not a racism thing.
 
Gimmesometruth said:
Those who know that the Bible is wrong on condemning homosexuals are not offended by the claim of hypocrisy, they understand that logic. Those who cannot handle it are those who have not come to terms with the fact the the Bible is full of errors, something that should not be taken literally, something that should not be swallowed whole.
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Those who know that the bible is wrong on condemning homosexuals can certainly be offended by someone calling the bible "BS". There are ways to present your argument that make it listenable. Attacking the bible, even if you mean to attack certain parts, will not get people to hear your message.
 
Re: Anti-Bullying Speaker Curses Christian Teens

Excon said:
The "root", is in homosexuals being different, or if you will, outside the norm.
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The "norm". It exists in nature, supposedly god created nature, ergo homosexuality was created by god. To condemn it is hypocrisy.
 
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