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Anti-Bullying Speaker Curses Christian Teens[W:165; 667]

Re: Anti-Bullying Speaker Curses Christian Teens

Gimmesometruth said:
WTF? Red herring...straw....what is your point?
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Just my experience, but those bible thumping, FCA, attend church every week, kids, weren't the ones that bullied.
In fact, they were more well behaved, than other kids.

Gimmesometruth said:
Again, if saying " you are a hypocrite if you are a christian and condemn homosexuals" is "unwise", then simple challenges to ones beliefs must be avoided...or else one might have to think. Heaven forbid.
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That's not what he said though.
 
Re: Anti-Bullying Speaker Curses Christian Teens

Harry Guerrilla said:
I give them a "pass" just like I do other religions.
I don't believe Muslims should be condemned en mass, for the actions of a few.

Individuals make choices, sometimes they use religion to justify their beliefs.
It doesn't make the individual less responsible and the religion more responsible.
The religion is a thing, it doesn't speak and act on it's own accord.
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1. He didn't condemn all Christians.
2. I agree that individuals are responsible and that religion isn't solely responsible. Your point coexists with my point so I don't know why you're presenting it as a counterargument. I do, however, acknowledge that religious beliefs are part of it and to act as if they aren't is illogical and wrong.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
Those who know that the bible is wrong on condemning homosexuals can certainly be offended by someone calling the bible "BS". There are ways to present your argument that make it listenable. Attacking the bible, even if you mean to attack certain parts, will not get people to hear your message.
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Indeed, one needs to figure out, do you want to win the argument or take out your anger and thereby ruin any chance you had of changing minds? This was a good opportunity to reach people Savage might never have gotten to speak to in the first place. He wasted it with his rude antics.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
Those who know that the bible is wrong on condemning homosexuals can certainly be offended by someone calling the bible "BS". There are ways to present your argument that make it listenable. Attacking the bible, even if you mean to attack certain parts, will not get people to hear your message.
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That's my problem.

Rather than attacking the bible, use more brotherly passages, to get people, to become more accepting of gays.
 
People have to understand...you cannot strongarm anyone into agreeing with you...you cant badger them and expect them to change their mind...you cant curse and abuse them and expect them to endear themselves to you...
Take me...I was raised in a different time and my view on homosexuality are obviously different than most...but the are NOT predicated on any hate for anyone. Its what I believe..based on what ive learned I guess and what I think now...but your not going to change my mind by badgering me or yelling or cursing and calling me things I know im not...like a homophobe or gay hater...Now if you cant change my mind like this speaker tried to do with these kids...how is he going to change the minds of people with deep religious beliefs by cursing at them and being aggressive....
He needed to get up there and smile and show the kids he was no diferent than them..and then clearly state the points he was trying to convey in a clear calm kind manner and they would have LISTENED TO HIM...he may even had planted some seeds of doubt in young minds....but I have to ask everyone in this thread that is excusing his behavior....HOW DID HE MAKE OUT with the approach he used...
 
Re: Anti-Bullying Speaker Curses Christian Teens

ThePlayDrive said:
1. He didn't condemn all Christians.
2. I agree that individuals are responsible and that religion isn't solely responsible. Your point coexists with my point so I don't know why you're presenting it as a counterargument. I do, however, acknowledge that religious beliefs are part of it and to act as if they aren't is illogical and wrong.
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His behavior and attitude, showed otherwise.

It's my belief, that the religion is not the real reason.
It's that gay people are different and thus the main reason behind others bullying them.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
Those who know that the bible is wrong on condemning homosexuals can certainly be offended by someone calling the bible "BS".
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There is the problem with your argument, the assumption that he is condemning all of the Bible, all of christianity. He is not.


There are ways to present your argument that make it listenable. Attacking the bible, even if you mean to attack certain parts, will not get people to hear your message.
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Again, if a christian can't handle challenges, provocative or otherwise, then it is a weak structure. If one cannot handle having a belief system challenged, then they should stay indoors, away from the intertubes and whatnot.
 
Gimmesometruth said:
Yeah, the challenge "you are a hypocrite if you are a christian and condemn homosexuals" is so "bullying"!

I can't believe you too have bought into this BS.

Unfriend me, please.
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LOL, so first you criticize YourStar for admitting a mistake and now you want to unfriend one of the nicest people here because she doesn't agree with you? Are you not confident enough in your position to stand a little disagreement?
 
Re: Anti-Bullying Speaker Curses Christian Teens

Josie said:
TPD, would you say Jesus Christ was a bigot?
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I don't know what Jesus was. I like what he said about love though.
 
Re: Anti-Bullying Speaker Curses Christian Teens

Harry Guerrilla said:
I give them a "pass" just like I do other religions.
I don't believe Muslims should be condemned en mass, for the actions of a few.

Individuals make choices, sometimes they use religion to justify their beliefs.
It doesn't make the individual less responsible and the religion more responsible.
The religion is a thing, it doesn't speak and act on it's own accord.
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Yes, that does seem to be the standardized playbook written down by the media, and it will only take a nuke in NYC or LA to convince people that it's wrong otherwise, meanwhile cheers.
 
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Re: Anti-Bullying Speaker Curses Christian Teens

Gimmesometruth said:
The "norm". It exists in nature, supposedly god created nature, ergo homosexuality was created by god. To condemn it is hypocrisy.
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My argument is not dependent on a G_d.
But even under your argument, that G_d created therefore - then G_d's supposed instructions apply.

But as it is, my argument, not having to do with G_d, involves no hypocrisy.

They are outside of the norm.
 
Gimmesometruth said:
Again, if a christian can't handle challenges, provocative or otherwise, then it is a weak structure. If one cannot handle having a belief system challenged, then they should stay indoors, away from the intertubes and whatnot.
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Oh the irony.
 
X Factor said:
LOL, so first you criticize YourStar for admitting a mistake and now you want to unfriend one of the nicest people here because she doesn't agree with you? Are you not confident enough in your position to stand a little disagreement?
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I don't want to be associated with folks I once considered reasonable, who stood up for themselves, who now cave and support irrational positions.
 
Re: Anti-Bullying Speaker Curses Christian Teens

ThePlayDrive said:
I don't know what Jesus was. I like what he said about love though.
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Me too. Christians follow Christ. True Christians aren't bigots. They might disagree with someone who is immoral in their eyes, but they don't persecute them for it. These people bullying gays aren't being Christ-like. Their actions don't come from their studies of Christ, but from hate.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
Those who know that the bible is wrong on condemning homosexuals can certainly be offended by someone calling the bible "BS". There are ways to present your argument that make it listenable. Attacking the bible, even if you mean to attack certain parts, will not get people to hear your message.
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That was exactly my point...how did he make out they way he presented himself....he got left standing there with his arse in his hands
 
Re: Anti-Bullying Speaker Curses Christian Teens

Harry Guerrilla said:
His behavior and attitude, showed otherwise.

It's my belief, that the religion is not the real reason.
It's that gay people are different and thus the main reason behind others bullying them.
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1. Not really.
2. I disagree. Beliefs are part of the reason. You could also argue that racist beliefs aren't the "real reason" why white supremacists kill black people, but it doesn't change the fact that racist beliefs are a part of the problem and that since they are irrational, they ought to be challenged.
 
Re: Anti-Bullying Speaker Curses Christian Teens

Matt Foley said:
Yes, that does seem to be the standardized playbook written down by the media, and it will only take a nuke in NYC or LA to convince people that it's wrong otherwise, meanwhile cheers.
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Well I had a liberal Muslim friend, he served me, an ethnic Jew, pork.
He was very spiritual in his belief, just not a fundy.

I couldn't condemn him, for the actions of others.
 
I REALLY didn't even want to watch the video, because I knew I'd probably want to comment on it. Just been reading the thread since it's inception. OK. I watched the video. I have mixed feelings about it. Firstly, from what I saw, it seemed that the students leaving was a planned event. Too neat. And, at least from what I saw him saying, initially, I really didn't see anything incredibly offensive... and I am probably one of the most religious members on this board. However, my problem with what he was saying was that he was NOT discussing the root causes of hatred towards homosexuality. He was bashing the bible. If he wanted to discuss the root causes, he should have gone a different route. Probably should have discussed the REAL meanings of Leviticus and other passages, indicated how it's not the belief system, but what people take from it that matters, and how the root cause is really a dependency on religion to foster beliefs about sexuality rather than science and research. If he's talking about bullying, he need to present "tools' on how to confront it. You do this by proving people wrong, not by telling people their beliefs or "book" is BS. Overall, I saw the situation as a wash. Not as bad as some have presented, but not really appropriate for the conference.

Oh, and with a presentation like his, he wouldn't last a minute at DP. ;)
 
Re: Anti-Bullying Speaker Curses Christian Teens

ThePlayDrive said:
1. He didn't condemn all Christians.
2. I agree that individuals are responsible and that religion isn't solely responsible. Your point coexists with my point so I don't know why you're presenting it as a counterargument. I do, however, acknowledge that religious beliefs are part of it and to act as if they aren't is illogical and wrong.
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He condemned Christians' Book.

And what he said was off-topic. He was invited to speak on alternative social media and using them to get the anti-bullying message out/raise awareness. He failed. He could have shared his expertise in using social media to help the budding journalists in his audience (whether they agree with his POV or not). He didn't. Instead, he indulged himself in a rant about one of his fave topics. We all know lecturers who do this instead of sticking to the topic. And that's what he did.
 
nota bene said:
Exactly. A curse-filled screed is not the way to open a real dialogue.
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Being driven to an auditorium in a yellow bus, then being sat down in rows of chairs with big-screen TV's every 10 feet of a talking head making a speech is not a "dialogue" it's "teaching" where one side is the superior and the other the inferior. There was no concept of equality of ideas in this setting where there's "real dialogue".

It's a teaching environment with giant intimidating big screens to a young captive audience that kinda looks like this

bb_1984.jpg
 
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Re: Anti-Bullying Speaker Curses Christian Teens

Excon said:
My argument is not dependent on a G_d.
But even under your argument, that G_d created therefore - then G_d's supposed instructions apply.

But as it is, my argument, not having to do with G_d, involves no hypocrisy.

They are outside of the norm.
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In other words, you really don't have anything to say on the subject at hand....OK.
 
Re: Anti-Bullying Speaker Curses Christian Teens

ThePlayDrive said:
1. Not really.
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We'll have to agree, to disagree then.

ThePlayDrive said:
2. I disagree. Beliefs are part of the reason. You could also argue that racist beliefs aren't the "real reason" why white supremacists kill black people, but it doesn't change the fact that racist beliefs are a part of the problem and that since they are irrational, they ought to be challenged.
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I don't remember Jesus saying, beat up and harass gay people.
Christians are primarily following the teaching of Jesus.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
I REALLY didn't even want to watch the video, because I knew I'd probably want to comment on it. Just been reading the thread since it's inception. OK. I watched the video. I have mixed feelings about it. Firstly, from what I saw, it seemed that the students leaving was a planned event. Too neat. And, at least from what I saw him saying, initially, I really didn't see anything incredibly offensive... and I am probably one of the most religious members on this board. However, my problem with what he was saying was that he was NOT discussing the root causes of hatred towards homosexuality. He was bashing the bible. If he wanted to discuss the root causes, he should have gone a different route. Probably should have discussed the REAL meanings of Leviticus and other passages, indicated how it's not the belief system, but what people take from it that matters, and how the root cause is really a dependency on religion to foster beliefs about sexuality rather than science and research. If he's talking about bullying, he need to present "tools' on how to confront it. You do this by proving people wrong, not by telling people their beliefs or "book" is BS. Overall, I saw the situation as a wash. Not as bad as some have presented, but not really appropriate for the conference.

Oh, and with a presentation like his, he wouldn't last a minute at DP. ;)
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Geez, you came into this discussion without understanding the basics of the debate?

Sigh.
 
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