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Thread: Bradley Manning Hearing: Judge Refuses To Dismiss 'Aiding The Enemy' Charge

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    Re: Bradley Manning Hearing: Judge Refuses To Dismiss 'Aiding The Enemy' Charge

    Quote Originally Posted by Kane View Post
    Goddamn phony tea partiers - what about your precious Constitution and how it forbids cruel and unusual punishment?

    And you military men willing to throw one of your own under the bus for a guy who released files that were not even classified?

    Biggest bunch of shallow comments of recent memory!
    That is an outright lie.

    Aldrich Ames was one of our own (CIA) Robert Hansen was one of our own (FBI) that does not negate the fact that they broke the law in leaking classified information and they suffered the consequences. I see no reason Manning should be treated any differently. He intentionally leaked classified information, knowing it would be released for the world (including our enemies) to see.
    Last edited by Paratrooper; 05-02-12 at 12:15 AM.

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    Re: Bradley Manning Hearing: Judge Refuses To Dismiss 'Aiding The Enemy' Charge

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    I would say it is definitely premature to drop that charge. It will be hard to get a conviction on that charge and he will almost certainly be convicted of enough that he will spend the rest of his life in prison, but the charge is certainly not impossible to get a conviction on, and as such should not be dropped.
    I think you may be wrong...the military justice system is a bit different...than civilian courts of law....Manning did a stupid thing in his mind anyway...that was incredibly serious for an active duty soldier...its his intent more than what they actual information turned out to be...he broke many military laws..

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    Re: Bradley Manning Hearing: Judge Refuses To Dismiss 'Aiding The Enemy' Charge

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratrooper View Post
    That is an outright lie.

    Aldrich Ames was one of our own (CIA) Robert Hansen was one of our own (FBI) that does not negate the fact that they broke the law in leaking classified information and they suffered the consequences. I see no reason Manning should be treated any differently. He intentionally leaked classified information, knowing it would be released for the world (including our enemies) to see.
    Whether it was released or not is entirely irrelevant to me(though not to the legal system). If you give access controlled documents to any one for any reason other than those allowed, you have committed a serious crime. If you do not think the level of access control is appropriate, there are very clear procedures you can follow. What you cannot do is decide for yourself that you can make that decision.

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    I think you may be wrong...the military justice system is a bit different...than civilian courts of law....Manning did a stupid thing in his mind anyway...that was incredibly serious for an active duty soldier...its his intent more than what they actual information turned out to be...he broke many military laws..
    Right, but I am pretty sure that the aiding the enemy is what we called "piling on". When you are going up before a CM, they go through the UCMJ and find anything remotely possible that they can charge you under and add it to the list of charges. It works two ways, one is that it makes what the person did seem more serious, and it gives more chances to get a successful prosecution on some charge. There is a little more to it than that, but that is it in essence. The aiding the enemy charge is one that is going to have about the highest level of difficulty proving, though based on the evidence I know of, it could very well be provable enough to get a conviction. It certainly would not hurt my feelings if they convicted him of it.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

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    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Bradley Manning Hearing: Judge Refuses To Dismiss 'Aiding The Enemy' Charge

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Right, but I am pretty sure that the aiding the enemy is what we called "piling on". When you are going up before a CM, they go through the UCMJ and find anything remotely possible that they can charge you under and add it to the list of charges. It works two ways, one is that it makes what the person did seem more serious, and it gives more chances to get a successful prosecution on some charge. There is a little more to it than that, but that is it in essence. The aiding the enemy charge is one that is going to have about the highest level of difficulty proving, though based on the evidence I know of, it could very well be provable enough to get a conviction. It certainly would not hurt my feelings if they convicted him of it.
    I have to disaree with you here. This is not a case of "piling on", as the primary reason for classifing some documents, some might claim all, is to deny the enemy intelligence. Article 104, clause (2) directly address giving intelligence to the enemy, anytime classified information is improperly released, this charge has strong and direct bearing.

    For those who think it will be hard to prove this charge and get a conviction, well, look at the article.

    ART. 104. AIDING THE ENEMY
    Any person who--
    (1) aids, or attempts to aid, the enemy with arms, ammunition, supplies, money, or other things; or
    (2) without proper authority, knowingly harbors or protects or gives intelligence to or communicates or corresponds with or holds any intercourse with the enemy, either directly or indirectly;
    shall suffer death or such other punishment as a court-martial or military commission may direct.

    To get a conviction on this charge, the Prosecution only has to prove that his actions gives intelligence to or communicates or corresponds with or holds any intercourse with the enemy, either directly or indirectly. Besides the "gives intelligence", if he did indeed release classified documents, it is not going to be hard to prove he communicated, corresponded with the enemy, either directly or indirectly.

    His "intent" has no bearing upon guilt or innocence only whether or not his actions meet the definitions of the articles under which he is charged. Proving intent may come into play in some civilian cases, but it has no bearing in military law, except deciding which articles apply in some cases. Example, the difference between Murder and Manslaughter is intent, murder there is an intent to kill someone, manslaughter applies if intent to kill was lacking but death did occur. His lawyers better get a grip on military justice. If they bring up intent, prior to the sentecing phase, they will inadvertantly tell the panel that he is guilty in the military justice system. The fact that they tried to use intent to remove article 104 is admission that he is guilty and shows their unfamiliarality with military justice, since anyone reading the article can clearly see that intent is not a consideration under that article, only facts about what occured. To quote an old saying (and a line from a song) "I heard it said that the road to hell is paved with good intentions".

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    Re: Bradley Manning Hearing: Judge Refuses To Dismiss 'Aiding The Enemy' Charge

    Fox News Fascists call for Assanges death, including phony liberal Bob Beckel.

    What nice Nazis we have working in media or should we say, fronting for "democracy."




    Who Wants Assange Killed? | The Global Conspiracy

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    Re: Bradley Manning Hearing: Judge Refuses To Dismiss 'Aiding The Enemy' Charge

    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Bradley Manning Hearing: Judge Refuses To Dismiss 'Aiding The Enemy' Charge

    Quote Originally Posted by Kane View Post
    Goddamn phony tea partiers - what about your precious Constitution and how it forbids cruel and unusual punishment?

    And you military men willing to throw one of your own under the bus for a guy who released files that were not even classified?
    I've worked with the kinds of men whose children were tortured to death because of this a$$hole. I would take very real grim satisfaction in pulling the trigger myself.

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    Re: Bradley Manning Hearing: Judge Refuses To Dismiss 'Aiding The Enemy' Charge

    Quote Originally Posted by Kane View Post
    Fox News Fascists call for Assanges death, including phony liberal Bob Beckel.

    What nice Nazis we have working in media or should we say, fronting for "democracy."



    Who Wants Assange Killed? | The Global Conspiracy
    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    I've worked with the kinds of men whose children were tortured to death because of this a$$hole. I would take very real grim satisfaction in pulling the trigger myself.
    What BS!

    Nobody believes that comic book fantasy you just cooked up!

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    Re: Bradley Manning Hearing: Judge Refuses To Dismiss 'Aiding The Enemy' Charge

    Manning has never helped any enemy to the U.S. (from what I've seen) Have the U.S. government formally declare war and then maybe it would count.

    So what have we learned? That spreading a video of a helicopter lighting up an unarmed crawling man = enemy of the US government... (what happened to ALLL the rest of his leaks? Contained situation from the beginning maybe?) Boy, what a world we live in.
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    Re: Bradley Manning Hearing: Judge Refuses To Dismiss 'Aiding The Enemy' Charge

    Quote Originally Posted by dirtpoorchris View Post
    Manning has never helped any enemy to the U.S. (from what I've seen) Have the U.S. government formally declare war and then maybe it would count.

    So what have we learned? That spreading a video of a helicopter lighting up an unarmed crawling man = enemy of the US government... (what happened to ALLL the rest of his leaks? Contained situation from the beginning maybe?) Boy, what a world we live in.
    but be sure he will get a fair trial [/s]
    while his defense is denied the information which would exculpate him from possible conviction
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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