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Thread: Bradley Manning Hearing: Judge Refuses To Dismiss 'Aiding The Enemy' Charge

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    Re: Bradley Manning Hearing: Judge Refuses To Dismiss 'Aiding The Enemy' Charge

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarcogito View Post
    Just for the sake of accuracy, I don't think he is accused of leaking anything classified higher than Secret NOFORN.
    Secret

    This is the second-highest classification. Information is classified Secret when its release would cause "serious damage" to national security. Most information that is classified is held at the secret sensitivity.
    Classified information in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    NOFORN means No Foreigners, this primarily exist because some service members are not US Citizens and because some information is shared with allies and some is not.

    I am not for sure in what light you posted, but it kinda of sound like, gee, it's only Secret NOFORN and Top Secret, so hey, it's ok. I hope that is not the way you look at it, but if you do, I guess you are entitled to that opinion.

    Interesting that they are only charging with Aiding the Enemy, Article III Section 3 of the Constitution states, Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

    So, the way I read that is, Aiding the Enemy is definable as a treasonous act.

    The UCMJ defines Aiding the Enemy in Article 104

    ART. 104. AIDING THE ENEMY
    Any person who--
    (1) aids, or attempts to aid, the enemy with arms, ammunition, supplies, money, or other things; or
    (2) without proper authority, knowingly harbors or [protects or gives intelligence to or communicates or corresponds with or holds any intercourse with the enemy, either directly or indirectly;
    shall suffer death or such other punishment as a court-martial or military commission may direct.

    If he did leak secret information to Wiki Leaks, then his action would indeed fall under Article 104 Paragraph 2. Also, if the military were to conduct His Courts Martial in accordance with this article, he would face the Death Penalty, not just life in prison.

    I don't know exactly what information he leaked, but if I was sitting on the panel (military jury) and he released any information that could help either insurgents in Iraq or Afghanistan, then I would indeed find him guilty under this article and since he did during a time of armed conflict, I would vote for death.

  2. #22
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    Re: Bradley Manning Hearing: Judge Refuses To Dismiss 'Aiding The Enemy' Charge

    Quote Originally Posted by Kane View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Is a rather stupid editorial by some random nobody supposed to mean anything?
    I expect better analysis from a Mod.

    Stupid?

    How exactly?

  3. #23
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    Re: Bradley Manning Hearing: Judge Refuses To Dismiss 'Aiding The Enemy' Charge

    Last I heard the defense's motion to drop the charges and dismiss the case was based on the fact that the prosecution was refusing to release evidence on "national security" grounds, effectively meaning that they are in violation of Manning's right to a fair trial, as he cannot realistically defend himself.

    Also, IIRC, the vast majority of the prosecution's case rests on the claims of the loser, liar hacker with which Manning was corresponding, and these chat logs. So if this is all true, then the prosecution doesn't have much of a case.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

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    Re: Bradley Manning Hearing: Judge Refuses To Dismiss 'Aiding The Enemy' Charge

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratrooper View Post
    I saw people try to play the gay angle all the time to get out of deploying, chances are his command had too.

    Even before DADT was repealed
    there were guys we knew were gay and over looked it
    because they were cool and didn't make a big deal out of it.

    Being gay is not a mental disorder.

    Looking back with 20/20 hindsight I'm sure they might handle it different.

    As far as sending a picture in a dress... You'd be surprised the things straight grunts will do for a laugh. Things that to a outside observer would seem "super gay". Like the "impossible situp"
    Transgenderism is a mental disorder. Striking a female soldier and curling up in a ball on the floor while on duty are way past playing the gay angle to get out of deployment. Ordering the bolt removed from his weapon while in Iraq is a sure sign that his CO knew the wheels were coming off. This is a huge failure and embarrassment for his chain of command. They need to be made accountable for their failure.

    Is Transgenderism a mental illness? - Grey Matters

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    Re: Bradley Manning Hearing: Judge Refuses To Dismiss 'Aiding The Enemy' Charge

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    I am not for sure in what light you posted, but it kinda of sound like, gee, it's only Secret NOFORN and Top Secret, so hey, it's ok. I hope that is not the way you look at it, but if you do, I guess you are entitled to that opinion.
    .
    I'm writing as someone who deals with classified information for a living. Criticize Manning for what he allegedly did but there is no need to exaggerate, and claiming that Manning leaked TS is exaggerating.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarcogito View Post
    I'm writing as someone who deals with classified information for a living. Criticize Manning for what he allegedly did but there is no need to exaggerate, and claiming that Manning leaked TS is exaggerating.


    It's still restricted whether it's confidential, secret (noforn, eyes only, etc), ts sbi, sci, cnwdi, et al. It doesn't matter. Other than most entering the .mil come in with a secret, or at least they did as I recall in the af.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    "The material included two videos one of a July 2007 Baghdad airstrike and the other of the May 2009 Granai airstrike in Afghanistan as well as over 250,000 United States diplomatic cables, and around 500,000 army reports about the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. It was the largest set of restricted documents ever leaked to the public"

    This isn't about being a whistle blower. There are appropriate channels to take issues such as this.

    The largest leak in American history is not the appropriate way to air your grievances.

    He needs to be made a lesson of so people don't think these actions are acceptable and without consequences.

    To those who say this leak did not hurt anyone.....that is absolute ignorance.

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    Re: Bradley Manning Hearing: Judge Refuses To Dismiss 'Aiding The Enemy' Charge

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    Last I heard the defense's motion to drop the charges and dismiss the case was based on the fact that the prosecution was refusing to release evidence on "national security" grounds, effectively meaning that they are in violation of Manning's right to a fair trial, as he cannot realistically defend himself.

    Also, IIRC, the vast majority of the prosecution's case rests on the claims of the loser, liar hacker with which Manning was corresponding, and these chat logs. So if this is all true, then the prosecution doesn't have much of a case.
    I don't know what the prosectuions case rest upon. However, if there are chat logs, then it will be kind of hard to prove those logs are liars.

    Unfortunately for the defendent in this case, it does deal with classified information and there are very strict rules about releasing it. Inorder for that information to be released, his defence attorney (as well as the judge, panel and everyone else in the court room at the time) has to have the appropriate security clearance. For the attornies, judge and the panel, there easily a "need to know". The audience in the court room does not, so they will probably be removed before that part of the evidence is brought forth. The defendent is going to be restricted to a defence attorney that has or can get the appropriate clearence level, which means he cannot use just any attorney for his defence.

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    Re: Bradley Manning Hearing: Judge Refuses To Dismiss 'Aiding The Enemy' Charge

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    I don't know exactly what information he leaked, but if I was sitting on the panel (military jury) and he released any information that could help either insurgents in Iraq or Afghanistan, then I would indeed find him guilty under this article and since he did during a time of armed conflict, I would vote for death.
    I agree. That's like saying a doctor wants to murder his wife using controlled prescription drugs, used a medical license to gain access to drugs to kill her, slipped it in her salad and at the last moment the drugs were discovered. Clearly this guy intended to murder his wife and used his position to access means to do it, so he should go to prison and at a minimum lose his medical license.

    What's the point of even having a classification system if we say that we have no idea what the long-term effects of these documents' release will be, and no harm, no foul right? I get that he didn't hand over TS information, but even the fact that his TS-SCI clearance gained him access to all of these documents and he allegedly chose to release them indicates that he broke the law. It shouldn't matter if no one can prove deaths or severe compromise of U.S. personnel and equipment resulted from the release of these documents.

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    Re: Bradley Manning Hearing: Judge Refuses To Dismiss 'Aiding The Enemy' Charge

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel
    However, if there are chat logs, then it will be kind of hard to prove those logs are liars.
    LOL have you ever heard of Microsoft Word? You really think a notorious hacker wouldn't have the ability to easily fabricate such a document?

    Unfortunately for the defendent in this case, it does deal with classified information and there are very strict rules about releasing it. Inorder for that information to be released, his defence attorney (as well as the judge, panel and everyone else in the court room at the time) has to have the appropriate security clearance. For the attornies, judge and the panel, there easily a "need to know". The audience in the court room does not, so they will probably be removed before that part of the evidence is brought forth. The defendent is going to be restricted to a defence attorney that has or can get the appropriate clearence level, which means he cannot use just any attorney for his defence.
    Relevant evidence must be provided to the defense or it is a violation of Manning's consitutional rights.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

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