• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Teacher Claims She Was Fired From Catholic School For In Vitro Fertilization

So if I sign a contract with "Yada Company" and then decide that I no longer want to adhere to the contract, I can walk away and the courts will side with me? This what you're telling me is going to happen in this case, yes?

If you sign a contract with "Yada Company" which violates the law then yes you can walk away. It's in the excerpt I provided. Learn to read carefully, won't you?

I haven't told you what's going to happen in this case. I don't know what's going to happen in this case. I told you where you went wrong with your arguements and that deciding whether the Catholic Church discriminated against her and whether they are exempted from the Law even if they have done so is for the court to decide, not you.
 
Not so fast. The people are the church, so I'd suggest you choose better words next time when stating you hate something. Be concise.


Well lookey here, yet another brainiac throws his right wing hat into the fray. Honestly, you folks are killing me here. Your desperation is palpable. The collective intelligence of your comments not so much.

Is there a single one of you capable of understanding the difference between the governing body of a church, known as the "church" and the people that attend or belong?

I honestly don't think any of you, in your blind ass loyalty to the religious right is capable. Cracks me up it does.
 
Is it me, or does it seem with stories like this, activist fluke, and obama's statements on contraceptives, that there is a concentrates assault on the catholic church and "peoples free exercise thereof"?
 
If you sign a contract with "Yada Company" which violates the law then yes you can walk away. It's in the excerpt I provided. Learn to read carefully, won't you?

I haven't told you what's going to happen in this case. I don't know what's going to happen in this case. I told you where you went wrong with your arguements and that deciding whether the Catholic Church discriminated against her and whether they are exempted from the Law even if they have done so is for the court to decide, not you.



It was in her contract. Thus it is not discrimination. She read it and signed it.

The govt needs to remember the "seperation" thingy or else we're going down that rode.
 
It was in her contract. Thus it is not discrimination. She read it and signed it.

The govt needs to remember the "seperation" thingy or else we're going down that rode.
..............
In an employment, a contract is only as good as goes. The problem is not the contract, the problem is the action by the diocese. Their actions must be LEGAL. The question at hand is whether their action of firing Herx, due to how she became pregnant, was legal. Now what makes the diocese believe they have a legal right to fire this employee is the protection that the ministerial exception gives to religious organizations.

Now if any secular employer tried to fire Herx for her becoming pregnant, they would be in violation of Title VII of the civil rights act, since a contract does not allow an employer to violate federal and state laws with an employee.


So again, the question comes down to whether the court will broaden the ministerial exception to secular, non-religious, lit teachers working at a catholic school.





The court will make that decision, but you really need to understand that a contract does not allow an employer to violate federal and state laws with an employee.
 
So you agree that it is a rule. Good that we've got that out of the way.

Now my next question is this. If you break the rules where you work, do you get away with it, or are you admonished for it? If you continually break the rules, are you terminated?

I don't know why this is so hard to grasp. She broke the rules repeatedly in her place of employment. Her contract is not renewed. The end.

Leave all the emotion out of it, people. Stop blabbering about how much you hate the Catholic Church. Stop blabbering about "oh poor thing just wants a baby." Take all the emotion out of it and look at it like it really is - a woman is continually breaking the rules at work, and as a result, doesn't get her contract renewed.

Yes, because as we know stupid rules can never be challenged. It's really fortunate you weren't around during the 50's, otherwise blacks would still be sitting in the back of the bus.

If the Catholic church institituted a rule that said you couldn't work for them if you married somebody not of your race, would that be OK too - after all, its one of the 'sacred rules'.
 
It was in her contract. Thus it is not discrimination. She read it and signed it.

The govt needs to remember the "seperation" thingy or else we're going down that rode.

Yeah, then there was that polygamy thing the Mormons used to have until we ignored the 'separation' thingy and told them they couldn't do that anymore. Fortunately they had a revelation at about the same time explaining that they couldn't have multiple wives any more. Willard's gerat grandpa got so mad about it he moved him and his five wives to Mexico.
 
Last edited:
Is it me, or does it seem with stories like this, activist fluke, and obama's statements on contraceptives, that there is a concentrates assault on the catholic church and "peoples free exercise thereof"?

Doesn't quite match the Catholic Church's assault on little boys, but you may be on to something. I'm betting it will cause you not to vote for President Obama after all.
 
I honestly don't think any of you, in your blind ass loyalty to the religious right is capable. Cracks me up it does.
Would you respond to my point, or should we leave it at that?
 
It was in her contract. Thus it is not discrimination. She read it and signed it.

The govt needs to remember the "seperation" thingy or else we're going down that rode.

What 'rode' would that be?

Your notion that if something is in a contract, it can't be discrimination is silly. Your position is that an employment contract can supersede the U.S. Constitution?
 
Would you respond to my point, or should we leave it at that?
Maybe when he gets back he might, he isn't here now. Lonely?

Last Seen
Yesterday @ 11:00 PM
 
Last edited:
Yeah, then there was that polygamy thing the Mormons used to have until we ignored the 'separation' thingy and told them they couldn't do that anymore. Fortunately they had a revelation at about the same time explaining that they couldn't have multiple wives any more. Willard's gerat grandpa got so mad about it he moved him and his five wives to Mexico.


Hey ya Wiggen! What does the Mormon religion to do with this case? I smell a red herring on the trail. :mrgreen:
 
What 'rode' would that be?

Your notion that if something is in a contract, it can't be discrimination is silly. Your position is that an employment contract can supersede the U.S. Constitution?



Well at least I know you read my posts. Thanks for catching my "rode" mistake. ;)
 
Is it me, or does it seem with stories like this, activist fluke, and obama's statements on contraceptives, that there is a concentrates assault on the catholic church and "peoples free exercise thereof"?


BWAHAHAHAHA "The War on The Catholic Church"

Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
 
Would you respond to my point, or should we leave it at that?

Since you didn't have a point as usual, we should leave it at that. Had you actually read the thread, you'd have already gotten it.
 
Hey ya Wiggen! What does the Mormon religion to do with this case? I smell a red herring on the trail. :mrgreen:


Well, you are the guys that are babbling on about the holiness of church 'rules', and how they can never be challenged. I just thought I'd give you an example of one that was.
Speaking of revelations, the Grand Poobah of the Church had a revelation that black people could actually become church elders just about the time that BYU decided to become a football power. What a coincidence!
 
Since you didn't have a point as usual, we should leave it at that. Had you actually read the thread, you'd have already gotten it.
In reality, you either ignored my point or it flew over your head. You stated you hated the church, and I pointed out that the whole congregation is the church. You can either acknowledge that you were wrong, or continue being incorrect.
 
In reality, you either ignored my point or it flew over your head. You stated you hated the church, and I pointed out that the whole congregation is the church. You can either acknowledge that you were wrong, or continue being incorrect.

So you tell me Einstein, are you to blame the congregation, when the "Catholic Church" is guilty of hiding pedophiles? Are we to blame the congregation when an Archdiocese of the "Catholic Church" files bankruptcy to avoid paying damage settlements with rape victims? And so on... Church can mean the building, the congregation and or its leadership. Look it up.

You knew precisely what I meant all along. In your feeble attempt to be obtuse and apologetic for the religious right that you so love, you have made ass of yourself again.


http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/church

1church noun \ˈchərch\

Definition of CHURCH

1
: a building for public and especially Christian worship
2
: the clergy or officialdom of a religious body
3
often capitalized : a body or organization of religious believers: as
a : the whole body of Christians
b : denomination <the Presbyterian church>
c : congregation
4
: a public divine worship <goes to church every Sunday>
5
: the clerical profession <considered the church as a possible career>
See church defined for English-language learners »
See church defined for kids »

Examples of CHURCH

This is the oldest church in town.
They would like to be married in a church.
I didn't see you at church last Sunday.
He is a member of the Catholic Church.
What church do you belong to?
the church's attitude toward divorce
the separation of church and state

Run along now Skippy.
 
Last edited:
So you tell me Einstein
You need to understand that all members in the church are the church. Those members of the church who are pedophiles, or hide them, must be held accountable for their actions. None of your post has acknowledged that every member of the church from Pope to church-goer... are the Church; they are the body of Christ. The same applies to other Christian sects, like Baptists. You don't need to have a building to have church. Individuals are to be held accountable for their actions; not the whole.
 
Well, you are the guys that are babbling on about the holiness of church 'rules', and how they can never be challenged. I just thought I'd give you an example of one that was.
Speaking of revelations, the Grand Poobah of the Church had a revelation that black people could actually become church elders just about the time that BYU decided to become a football power. What a coincidence!



Now you know I don't care how folks run their religions. They can dance to the light of the moon and worship peanuts totally naked, as long as the police don't arrest them, they don't scare the horses in streets, and I don't have to watch or participate, have at it.

I do, though, care about the "Rule of Law". Once you lose that it's pretty much chaos.
 
Yes, because as we know stupid rules can never be challenged. It's really fortunate you weren't around during the 50's, otherwise blacks would still be sitting in the back of the bus.

Way to try to distract from the real conversation. This isn't about race relations and you know it. It's about someone not following the rules. Nobody ever answered the question I posed - what would happen to you if you broke the rules at work? Because that's all this is really about, if you take the emotion out of it. Somebody broke the rules at work and they are pissed because their contract isn't renewed.

If the Catholic church institituted a rule that said you couldn't work for them if you married somebody not of your race, would that be OK too - after all, its one of the 'sacred rules'.

If I worked for the Church and they said that that was one of the rules, I'd follow it. If not, I wouldn't expect to have my contract renewed.

They are called rules of the workplace. Familiarize yourself with them.
 
For what it's worth, Wiggen, I'm not one of the ones "babbling" about the Church rules, as you so eloquently put it. I am, however, "babbling" about work rules. It's not about the Church for me. I'm not even Catholic. I just understand that rules are expected to be followed in the workplace, and she didn't follow them.
 
3 often capitalized : a body or organization of religious believers: asa : the whole body of Christiansb : denomination c : congregation
You've proven my point.
 
You need to understand that all members in the church are the church. Those members of the church who are pedophiles, or hide them, must be held accountable for their actions. None of your post has acknowledged that every member of the church from Pope to church-goer... are the Church; they are the body of Christ. The same applies to other Christian sects, like Baptists. You don't need to have a building to have church. Individuals are to be held accountable for their actions; not the whole.

So Webster's Dictionary is wrong then? Really? Keep digging.
 
Back
Top Bottom