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Thread: Teacher Claims She Was Fired From Catholic School For In Vitro Fertilization

  1. #141
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    Re: Teacher Claims She Was Fired From Catholic School For In Vitro Fertilization

    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    I actually don't care what others believe. Just don't make laws that inflict your religion on me and I'm fine.

    Since I don't have a "religion" except "Billy's Religion", I won't.

    And I'm not looking for converts or members.

  2. #142
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    Re: Teacher Claims She Was Fired From Catholic School For In Vitro Fertilization

    Quote Originally Posted by nonpareil View Post
    Do you feel that way about the priests - that when they molest children, every Catholics also molest those children since they are all "the Church"?
    Uh, no.

    Quote Originally Posted by nonpareil View Post
    I personally dislike the rules, the policies, the teachings and the people who set those things. There's a distinct difference between members and institutions, when the Catholic Church conducted the Inquisition, I believe that most Catholics are innocent of those atrocities, and some were victims themselves.
    I'm not a big fan of the Catholic church's teachings either.


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    Re: Teacher Claims She Was Fired From Catholic School For In Vitro Fertilization

    Quote Originally Posted by Μολὼν λαβέ View Post
    Quoting from introductory contract law clairifies your lack of knowledge about professional teacher contracts.
    Another red herring. What does "professional teacher contracts" has to do with her case? Do you know that her contract was exactly the " "professional teacher contract"? The Equal Employment Opportunity Commission seems to think she has a case, and they are the ones who looked at her contract and her employment situation.

    Or maybe you just don't understand what the case is really about.

    You really think there was something illegal like this in her contract?
    As I have made it clear a few times, it's not mine or your place to determined whether there's something illegal in the contract, it's for the justice system to do so, and that's why she sued.
    Quote Originally Posted by Free_Radical View Post

    And I wasn't making an appeal to authority, I was making an appeal to the philosophical body of work of the founders, the worth and content of which should be well-known to anyone with a cursory understanding of basic history and philosophy.

    Brian

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    Re: Teacher Claims She Was Fired From Catholic School For In Vitro Fertilization

    Quote Originally Posted by Josie View Post
    Uh, no.



    I'm not a big fan of the Catholic church's teachings either.
    But the point is that there is a difference between members and institutions. Not all Catholics are fools like those in charge of the Catholic Church. There are good reasons to dislike the Church, and still like some people who happen to be Catholics.
    Quote Originally Posted by Free_Radical View Post

    And I wasn't making an appeal to authority, I was making an appeal to the philosophical body of work of the founders, the worth and content of which should be well-known to anyone with a cursory understanding of basic history and philosophy.

    Brian

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    Re: Teacher Claims She Was Fired From Catholic School For In Vitro Fertilization

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy the Kid View Post
    "The diocese said that teachers, even those such as Herx who aren't Catholic, are required by their contracts to abide by Catholic tenets and "serve as moral exemplars.". I'm sure you read this before, since it is what the thread is all about, but incase you missed it.

    She had a "choice" she chose to work for the Catholic diocese.
    Sure she had a choice, which is not in dispute, the thread is about whether the Catholic Church can fire her for using In-vitro fertilisation. The fact that you still refers to her contract suggests to me you still don't understand what the case is about despite my taking the effort to paste what a contract consists of so everyone can understand. My suggestion is that you educate yourself about that instead of repeating the same stupid irrelevant arguement.
    Quote Originally Posted by Free_Radical View Post

    And I wasn't making an appeal to authority, I was making an appeal to the philosophical body of work of the founders, the worth and content of which should be well-known to anyone with a cursory understanding of basic history and philosophy.

    Brian

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    Re: Teacher Claims She Was Fired From Catholic School For In Vitro Fertilization

    Quote Originally Posted by nonpareil View Post
    But the point is that there is a difference between members and institutions. Not all Catholics are fools like those in charge of the Catholic Church. There are good reasons to dislike the Church, and still like some people who happen to be Catholics.
    Well, of course. I didn't say he hated all Catholics, but he does clearly hate some. I don't hate them, I just think some of their beliefs are kooky and not part of Scripture.


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    Re: Teacher Claims She Was Fired From Catholic School For In Vitro Fertilization

    Quote Originally Posted by nonpareil View Post
    Sure she had a choice, which is not in dispute, the thread is about whether the Catholic Church can fire her for using In-vitro fertilisation. The fact that you still refers to her contract suggests to me you still don't understand what the case is about despite my taking the effort to paste what a contract consists of so everyone can understand. My suggestion is that you educate yourself about that instead of repeating the same stupid irrelevant arguement.


    So if I sign a contract with "Yada Company" and then decide that I no longer want to adhere to the contract, I can walk away and the courts will side with me? This what you're telling me is going to happen in this case, yes?

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    Re: Teacher Claims She Was Fired From Catholic School For In Vitro Fertilization

    Quote Originally Posted by Josie View Post
    Well, of course. I didn't say he hated all Catholics, but he does clearly hate some.
    Oh yes you most certainly did say that. I said I hated "The Church" to which you responded with this pap.

    Quote Originally Posted by Josie View Post
    The people are the church.

    And then as if that wasn't stupid enough, you threw this inane comment in for good measure.


    Quote Originally Posted by Josie View Post
    Or... do you hate the building? That's weird.
    Honestly, who do you think you're kidding here?

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    Re: Teacher Claims She Was Fired From Catholic School For In Vitro Fertilization

    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    And then as if that wasn't stupid enough, you threw this inane comment in for good measure.
    Not so fast. The people are the church, so I'd suggest you choose better words next time when stating you hate something. Be concise.

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    Re: Teacher Claims She Was Fired From Catholic School For In Vitro Fertilization

    Quote Originally Posted by Μολὼν λαβέ View Post
    The teacher fired had a contract; I guarantee that.
    Um, that is not in dispute...but go on..


    You really think her contract violated any law? Not a snowballs chance in Hell.
    Swing and a miss, strike two...



    The teacher violated the tenets of the contract according to the school, which acknowledged by the legal article I posted earlier, is not in her favor.
    There are no "tenets" in an employment contract, only terms.

    Look, I going to explain this one more time.

    In an employment, a contract is only as good as goes. The problem is not the contract, the problem is the action by the diocese. Their actions must be LEGAL. The question at hand is whether their action of firing Herx, due to how she became pregnant, was legal. Now what makes the diocese believe they have a legal right to fire this employee is the protection that the ministerial exception gives to religious organizations.

    Now if any secular employer tried to fire Herx for her becoming pregnant, they would be in violation of Title VII of the civil rights act, since a contract does not allow an employer to violate federal and state laws with an employee.
    Title VII's broad prohibitions against sex discrimination specifically cover:

    Sexual Harassment - This includes practices ranging from direct requests for sexual favors to workplace conditions that create a hostile environment for persons of either gender, including same sex harassment. (The "hostile environment" standard also applies to harassment on the bases of race, color, national origin, religion, age, and disability.)
    Pregnancy Based Discrimination - Pregnancy, childbirth, and related medical conditions must be treated in the same way as other temporary illnesses or conditions.
    Federal Laws Prohibiting Job Discrimination: Questions And Answers
    So again, the question comes down to whether the court will broaden the ministerial exception to secular, non-religious, lit teachers working at a catholic school.





    Sorry but I'm afraid its game over for her whether you believe it or not.
    The court will make that decision, but you really need to understand that a contract does not allow an employer to violate federal and state laws with an employee.
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    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

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