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Thread: Teacher Claims She Was Fired From Catholic School For In Vitro Fertilization

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    Re: Teacher Claims She Was Fired From Catholic School For In Vitro Fertilization

    Quote Originally Posted by Μολὼν λαβέ View Post
    I'm not taking anyone's position. I just understand reality of the situation. Open your eyes.
    Obviously you are taking the side of the diocese, my eyes are wide open to what your argument is.



    It doesn't matter. It's a contractual obligation she agreed to by signing.
    A contract doesn't matter if what the diocese did violated federal law.
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    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
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    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
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    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

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    Re: Teacher Claims She Was Fired From Catholic School For In Vitro Fertilization

    Quote Originally Posted by Μολὼν λαβέ View Post
    This is an interesting read and may take a while to down load if your computer is as slow as mine. I can see where this issue is moot. Additionally, the implication below for the plaintiff is part of what makes it so interesting.



    http://ejournals.bc.edu/ojs/index.ph...ewFile/265/262
    But the court in those cases saw that the employee was a religious employee, but this is not the case with Herx. In the last ruling on this in Hosanna-Tabor Church v. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission:

    Douglas Laycock, a law professor at the University of Virginia who argued the case on behalf of the defendant, a Lutheran school, said the upshot of the ruling was likely to be that “substantial religious instruction is going to be enough.”

    Asked about professors at Catholic universities like Notre Dame, Professor Laycock said: “If he teaches theology, he’s covered. If he teaches English or physics or some clearly secular subjects, he is clearly not covered.”

    Herx was not a catholic, she was a lit teacher, not a theology teacher.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

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    Re: Teacher Claims She Was Fired From Catholic School For In Vitro Fertilization

    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    Emily Herx, Teacher Claims She Was Fired From Catholic School For In Vitro Fertilization

    Wow. I hope she owns their asses on this. Unconscionable. As the father of two test tube babies, this pisses me off to no end.
    The Catholic Church is mentally ill. What do you expect from an organization that opposes both abortion and birth control? Don't they see the conflict/hypocrisy there? At the same time they don't do enough to stop their priests from raping young kids.

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    Re: Teacher Claims She Was Fired From Catholic School For In Vitro Fertilization

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    Obviously you are taking the side of the diocese, my eyes are wide open to what your argument is.


    A contract doesn't matter if what the diocese did violated federal law.
    My understanding of this matter is from working for many years in private education. All private schools (parochial and non-parochial) have personnel departments (may be under a different title) who understand employment contracts, employee relations, etc. and balance the wording of the contract to be vague and favor the school for any situation that may arise.

    In other words, it gives the balance of power to the school to interpret the meaning of the contract. That part is also stated somewhere in the contract the employee signs. There is no union, or any other kind of collective bargaining power private school employees have access to. That will never happen.

    Additionally, teachers work on a year-to-year contract. Scary thought isn't it? Piss off the wrong person one time and you can find yourself unemployed even after 20 years of service.

    I used to call it "the golden rule." Those with the gold make the rules.

    An ethical/moral clause in a contract requiring what's stated below is vague (server as moral exemplars) but violates no law.

    And yes, the school gets to interpret what "serve as moral exemplars" means.

    Am I on the school's side? No way in a hundred years, but it is what it is and I understand that.

    I also know it most likely futile to fight it.

    The diocese said that teachers, even those such as Herx who aren't Catholic, are required by their contracts to abide by Catholic tenets and "serve as moral exemplars."
    Emily Herx, Teacher Claims She Was Fired From Catholic School For In Vitro Fertilization
    Last edited by Μολὼν λαβέ; 04-28-12 at 05:48 PM.
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    Generalizations are stupid.
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    Re: Teacher Claims She Was Fired From Catholic School For In Vitro Fertilization

    If the details are as reported she should sue, win a financial settlement, and the church should still be allowed to fire her. My personal opinions re in-vitro fertilization are irrelevant with regard to the church's position on in-vitro fertilization. The church has the right to their position and to hire and fire accordingly. What IS relevant is that as an employee she approached her supervisor and was given the green light to proceed. IMO...its a pretty simple case.

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    Re: Teacher Claims She Was Fired From Catholic School For In Vitro Fertilization

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    If the details are as reported she should sue, win a financial settlement, and the church should still be allowed to fire her. My personal opinions re in-vitro fertilization are irrelevant with regard to the church's position on in-vitro fertilization. The church has the right to their position and to hire and fire accordingly. What IS relevant is that as an employee she approached her supervisor and was given the green light to proceed. IMO...its a pretty simple case.
    Not sure I'm following you. What do you mean she was "given the green light to proceed?" Her supervisor told her it was OK to have the procedure done, or her supervisor told her she could take time off work when she requested time off to have the procedure done?
    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Generalizations are stupid.
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Steel View Post
    The Second Amendment has nothing to do with guns.

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    Re: Teacher Claims She Was Fired From Catholic School For In Vitro Fertilization

    Quote Originally Posted by Μολὼν λαβέ View Post
    My understanding of this matter is from working for many years in private education. All private schools (parochial and non-parochial) have personnel departments (may be under a different title) who understand employment contracts, employee relations, etc. and balance the wording of the contract to be vague and favor the school for any situation that may arise.

    In other words, it gives the balance of power to the school to interpret the meaning of the contract. That part is also stated somewhere in the contract the employee signs. There is no union, or any other kind of collective bargaining power private school employees have access to. That will never happen.

    Additionally, teachers work on a year-to-year contract. Scary thought isn't it? Piss off the wrong person one time and you can find yourself unemployed even after 20 years of service.

    I used to call it "the golden rule." Those with the gold make the rules.

    An ethical/moral clause in a contract requiring what's stated below is vague (server as moral exemplars) but violates no law.

    And yes, the school gets to interpret what "serve as moral exemplars" means.

    Am I on the school's side? No way in a hundred years, but it is what it is and I understand that.

    I also know it most likely futile to fight it.



    Emily Herx, Teacher Claims She Was Fired From Catholic School For In Vitro Fertilization
    Again, all instructors cited in the previous court cases had contracts. The contract is only valid if the employer does not violate federal law. The case comes down to "ministerial exception", and again, the diocese will have to show that Herx was a "minister", showing that her class included substantial religious teaching. I don't know how they can do that with the course that she taught, not to mention that she was not catholic, so how she could be required to teach church doctrine is a big sticking point.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  8. #128
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    Re: Teacher Claims She Was Fired From Catholic School For In Vitro Fertilization

    According to the teacher, her Principle knew she was getting the procedure. He apparently didn't voice a concern, it was only later and by a pastor was she 'condemned'.

    Slippery ground as she wasn't a minister, ordained, or a religious teacher. One article did bring up an interesting point. The Catholic Church condemns many things American Catholics do as a matter course. Birth Control and 'living in sin' were mentioned. That makes the official statement on this matter suspect as it says Churches have the right to enforce Church Doctrine IMPARTIALLY. That maybe another sticking point if it is discovered The Church overlooked many other 'sinners' but have decided to make control of an American Catholic's reproduction THE ISSUE.

    But it wouldn't be the first time the Mother Church hid behind the Cross.

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    Re: Teacher Claims She Was Fired From Catholic School For In Vitro Fertilization

    Has the Church actually said her contract wasn't going to be renewed for having the procedure done? Or was it because she missed so much time to have the procedure done?

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    Re: Teacher Claims She Was Fired From Catholic School For In Vitro Fertilization

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy the Kid View Post
    Listen up. Libbys have screamed from the roof top about "choice", IMO that applies to the job you work. Don't like an employer then "move on". The Catholic Church is a religious organization and as such the GOVERNMENT needs to keep it's nose out of their business.

    If you don't want to be a Catholic or work for the Catholic Org., then use that wonderful thing you call "CHOICE" and don't. Simple
    How do you whether she wants to a Catholic or not or whether she wants to work for a Catholic organisation or not? Those thing are entirely irrelevant to this discussion anyway. If you don't want people to be able to sue employers over discrimination because you think that's taking "choice" away from the employers, then start a petition to repeal the statute. It doesn't change the fact there is a law against employer discrimination, and the Catholic Church is not above the Law. Whether there's a disability or whether the exceptions include teachers is something for the court to decide, not you.

    Instead of going into group-think and use terms like "Libbys", maybe you should educate yourself about why the Law takes precedence over any particular religion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Free_Radical View Post

    And I wasn't making an appeal to authority, I was making an appeal to the philosophical body of work of the founders, the worth and content of which should be well-known to anyone with a cursory understanding of basic history and philosophy.

    Brian

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