Another Unarmed Black Man Killed

Ockham said:

Ok I have to be real picky here. The fastest 40 yard dash in Pro Football ever recorded was Bo Jackson who did it in 4.12 seconds in 1986 in the Superdome in New Orleans. If someone is covering 100 yards in 4-6 seconds, they are the fastest person alive and has a helluva career in professional sports.

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Logistically correct. The reality is that there are at least a few people here that are claiming that if it were them THEY would have the mental wherewithal to encounter a stranger on an enclosed porch in the wee AM hours that is...what...a distance of no more than a few yards away...and stop and analyze the situation.

Ive had few (thankfully very few) occasions to suspect someone was in my house in the middle of the night. I have never HAD to make that life or death decision and I am grateful for that. However, if I were to encounter another man in my home...sorry...my family is too important to me. He loses, no question. And I would feel horrible and sad. I would also be very angry at him and his stupidity for ever putting me in that situation.

ThePlayDrive said:

That could happen, but that's an unlikely scenario, I think. Moreover, if you think that scenario is a possibility and you believe that the person outside is a threat, then it doesn't make sense to willfully establish contact with that threat by opening your door and then shooting him, particularly when 1) the police are right outside 2) you know a bunch of dumb teenagers are having a party.

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I will not allow a suspicious person to lurk around and gain advantage, as well "the police are right outside" means they are at a distance disadvantage, I don't know how "right" outside they are but I do know my suspect is closer to my family, and I cannot assume that the person outside naturally came from the party.

If you have such a fear, why go outside, particularly when the police are right outside? To me, shooting is a last resort not only because I would rather not kill someone unless I have to, but because I'm putting myself and my family in danger by opening a door that a criminal can enter. Just keep it closed, keep your gun and call the police who are right outside your house.

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My property, my liability. If the police get there in time everything is good, if they don't I am in danger until proven otherwise. Suspects do not get the benefit of the doubt, survival 101.

Not in this case, I don't think. If my door is closed, I have my fun and the police are right outside my house, it's reasonable to try them first before opening a door, making myself vulnerable and shooting someone.

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Uh, no. No one gets the chance to enter the premises if I can avoid it, too many places they can hide and my loved ones could get in the line of fire. I'm not going to have fun, I will end a threat if I must, key word being must.

*Keep in mind that my argument is, in part, based on the fact that I've been in a similar situation before and no one died because we called the police instead of going outside and handling it ourselves. I just see shooting as a last resort. But even though we disagree, thanks for actually addressing what I said instead of going on some tangent.

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Ending a life is absolutely a last resort, I totally agree there. However if the police are en route I would not have taken the chance that the stranger on my property holds those same values.

Mycroft said:

LOL!!!Hypothetical much???

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Similar things happen periodically, are you really suggesting it's only hypothetical that entirely unarmed and unaggressive people get shot and killed. Good gods you people are so challenged.

VanceMack said:

Logistically correct. The reality is that there are at least a few people here that are claiming that if it were them THEY would have the mental wherewithal to encounter a stranger on an enclosed porch in the wee AM hours that is...what...a distance of no more than a few yards away...and stop and analyze the situation. Ive had few (thankfully very few) occasions to suspect someone was in my house in the middle of the night. I have never HAD to make that life or death decision and I am grateful for that. However, if I were to encounter another man in my home...sorry...my family is too important to me. He loses, no question. And I would feel horrible and sad. I would also be very angry at him and his stupidity for ever putting me in that situation.

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Oh bull****. If you can't analyze a situation you have no right to carry a firearm. You'd be metnally unfit. Good lord. All this talk about how trained people are to carry firearms, then you admit they can't analyze a situation in which to use deadly force or not.

Yes, I have chosen to actually use my brain and NOT to kill a kid who was drunk and thought he was at his own apartment, as he kicked in a window and started to climb in, at 2am. Yes, I used 0.0001% of my adult brainpower to call the cops, ensure I was relatively safe and in a good position to stop him if he became a threat. And when he realized his mistake finally, the cops arrived and took him away. I recall all of this because I had a functioning human brain of course.

Mach said:

Oh bull****. If you can't analyze a situation you have no right to carry a firearm. You'd be metnally unfit. Good lord. All this talk about how trained people are to carry firearms, then you admit they can't analyze a situation in which to use deadly force or not.

Yes, I have chosen to actually use my brain and NOT to kill a kid who was drunk and thought he was at his own apartment, as he kicked in a window and started to climb in, at 2am. Yes, I used 0.0001% of my adult brainpower to call the cops, ensure I was relatively safe and in a good position to stop him if he became a threat. And when he realized his mistake finally, the cops arrived and took him away. I recall all of this because I had a functioning human brain of course.

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Dood was on his property and encountered not a drunk kid trying to break into his window but a man crouched in a corner. tragically, or luckily, it was jut a stupid man who made a whole series o bad choices that night and not a rapist or someone else with evil intent.

ThePlayDrive said:

This is such a gross post. While I agree with the "it's best to assume the worst" part since that's necessary for safety, the complete disregard for a human life being taken is despicable.

I started out on this board with a pretty liberal, in the literal sense, view on gun rights. I wanted some restrictions for severe mental illness and gun registration. I was definitely for things like Castle Doctrine and all that and at the beginning of the Martin/Zimmerman case, I had no problems with laws like Stand Your Ground. However, my time spent on this board reading so many posts like this has completely changed that mindset.

I based my original position on the assumption that most gun owners thought like me that killing others was a necessary evil rather than a seemingly frivolous, almost amusing thing where we joke about "Darwin awards" and make callous remarks like "screw him". So ****ing sick. It appears that it's not just the criminals who have a low regard for human life.

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Stuff it.

I have a low regard for criminals.


Breaking and entering is a criminal act. Doing so in the middle of the night is a threatening act. Doing all that when the homeowner is armed is fatally stupid.

JohnWOlin said:

. If they entered my house even if they were drunk and thought it was there house or something, I would likely fire at the least one in their shins.

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Shoot him in the head instead of letting him bleed out from a gunshot wound to the leg or something else slow.

****, the intruder and his apology

Mach said:

Similar things happen periodically, are you really suggesting it's only hypothetical that entirely unarmed and unaggressive people get shot and killed. Good gods you people are so challenged.

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What on earth makes you think I said something like that?

Talk about being challenged...

lizzie said:

The idiot who is trespassing on another's property is the one who has no regard for his own life. If he's really so stupid as to go around just assuming he can enter someone's private property, then he should be aware of the possible consequences.

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I'm curious as to which idiot you are referring to, lizzie?

According to your definition, there are two idiots here. A mature older idiot and a much younger idiot who barely got a chance to be wiser in life.

Didn't the mature idiot know that he was also really so stupid and could be shot dead when he not only trespassed someone's private property by going over to his neighbor's driveway at passed mid-night, a factor that could easily scared the hell out of him, but also "pounded on the window of the car and asked a woman inside to turn down the music"?

You know the "Castle Doctrine" law that the older idiot claimed to stand on? The woman in the car who was startled by his window pounding could have shot him to death and claimed the same. At the very least she is a woman in her car at wee hour when somebody suddenly came up pounding on her car window, that would be very scary. Yet, she just seemingly refused to give in to his demand to turn the music down. That pounding guy could have a gun. Scary, isn't it?

Yet, the young idiot hiding in the porch didn't even pound on the door but that big idiot was so scared that he found it right to just shoot him to death. Talk about being a man. And armed with a lethal weapon to boot. I don't know whether the woman had a gun or not, but if she had killed that older big idiot, she'd have spared the life of the younger idiot.

So, which idiots are you referring to now? The younger one who merely sought refuge in the porch or the much older one who not only trespassed other people's property but also pounded on the window of another person's private property at wee hours?

What I can't fathom is that at 1:50 am police parked just a few hundred feet behind Hind's house called Kind and spoke with him for 41/2 minutes. That put the police call to Hind ending at about 1:54 to 1:55 am. Around 1:55 am, as soon as the call ended, Hind shot the young man, Bo, to death and called out to his wife to call 911. The wife's 911 call came in at 2:00 am, a full 5 minutes.

Even if his wife is hard of hearing, it shouldn't take but a minute or so for her to finally get the message, if not Hind could have just called the 911 himself. That young man's life could well be saved if the police could respond sooner.

And shouldn't he call the 911 first before opening the door to confront the whoever is outside, given he'd just spoken with an officer a few seconds ago and there was a party at his neighbor's property where he had just ventured into their driveway at wee hour without fear of being attacked by some wee hour boogeymen?

VanceMack said:

John...funny how you feel the need to frequently assert your "straightness".

How many threads have you started regarding black on black genocide? Yet you feel the need to start a thread regarding a poor black victim murdered most heinously.

Sad...very sad. 8 black people a DAY Die by genocide. And ignored. Oh yes...you 'care'

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I believe I have started one on black guy crime and black
Man on black woman crime. Please tell me what other threads members come on to me and call me
Baby?

As for genocide in other parts of the world, my old college roommate is from Togo, Africa and him and I both did and made quite a bit that was sent to many of togo war torn neighbors. I however care more about what happens in my country.

JohnWOlin said:

I believe I have started one on black guy crime and black
Man on black woman crime. Please tell me what other threads members come on to me and call me
Baby?

As for genocide in other parts of the world, my old college roommate is from Togo, Africa and him and I both did and made quite a bit that was sent to many of togo war torn neighbors. I however care more about what happens in my country.

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Good lord, son...you are still on about the 'baby' comment and consider that a 'come-on'? Dood you are the most insecure 'straight' man I have ever seen. :lamo

8 people a day in this country die from black on black crime and you and people like you continue to wet yourself over TWO incidents that may or may not have been justifiable shootings. Oh yes...you care. Its so OBVIOUS! :lamo

Teenager shot when suspects allegedly try stealing Nike Air Jordan shoes

Teen gunned down in Gary, Ind. over shoes | abc7chicago.com

David Lee Robinson Of Washington D.C., Killed Over Pricey Shoes, Had Been Shot Before | wusa9.com

Just a sampling. The silence is deafening.

VanceMack said:

Teenager shot when suspects allegedly try stealing Nike Air Jordan shoes

Teen gunned down in Gary, Ind. over shoes | abc7chicago.com

David Lee Robinson Of Washington D.C., Killed Over Pricey Shoes, Had Been Shot Before | wusa9.com

Just a sampling. The silence is deafening.

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The last headline was the one that caught my attention. "Had Been Shot Before", it's like "Jesus, do you need a house to fall on you!" learn a lesson if you survive a shooting, don't put yourself in the same situation, go to school or get a job, beg........anything but tempting fate again!

VanceMack said:

Good lord, son...you are still on about the 'baby' comment and consider that a 'come-on'? Dood you are the most insecure 'straight' man I have ever seen. :lamo

8 people a day in this country die from black on black crime and you and people like you continue to wet yourself over TWO incidents that may or may not have been justifiable shootings. Oh yes...you care. Its so OBVIOUS! :lamo

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So all those people you mention in your post did the cops just say screw it? No, these are the key differences. You don't really read any of my original post do you? You're to busy coming on to a straight guy that you find disagreeable because apparently that is your turn on. Hey man, whatever floats your boat but you're barking up the wrong tree.

JohnWOlin said:

So all those people you mention in your post did the cops just say screw it? No, these are the key differences. You don't really read any of my original post do you? You're to busy coming on to a straight guy that you find disagreeable because apparently that is your turn on. Hey man, whatever floats your boat but you're barking up the wrong tree.

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You truly are a homophobe. Wow, John...I dont think I EVER would have found myself using that word...but...just...wow. Threatened much? :lamo

That very small sampling of people gunned down over their ****ING TENNIS SHOES JOHN doesnt really compare to a homeowner finding someone crouching in the corner of his house now DOES it? But you keep pretending you actually give a ****. Thats 3 cases...of the 8 that occur DAILY...

VanceMack said:

You truly are a homophobe. Wow, John...I dont think I EVER would have found myself using that word...but...just...wow. Threatened much? :lamo

That very small sampling of people gunned down over their ****ING TENNIS SHOES JOHN doesnt really compare to a homeowner finding someone crouching in the corner of his house now DOES it? But you keep pretending you actually give a ****. Thats 3 cases...of the 8 that occur DAILY...

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See when you said genocide I assumed you meant places like Africa. Homicide and genocide are completey different. Just like our sexual preferences are Vance.

JohnWOlin said:

So all those people you mention in your post did the cops just say screw it? No, these are the key differences. You don't really read any of my original post do you? You're to busy coming on to a straight guy that you find disagreeable because apparently that is your turn on. Hey man, whatever floats your boat but you're barking up the wrong tree.

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Moderator's Warning:

Mr. Olin, you will please cease the personal insults regarding sexual matters at once. Thank you.

JohnWOlin said:

See when you said genocide I assumed you meant places like Africa. Homicide and genocide are completey different. Just like our sexual preferences are Vance.

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John...'genocide' is not a term exclusive to natives in Africa. You really didnt know that? Jessie Jackson...Minister Farrakhan...others who would purport themselves to represent the African American community in America have spoken on this. And now we are past the parsing of the 'word', lets dive deeper into the acts and specifically the motivation. You and others are mightily concerned about the occasional occurrence of a black person being killed under circumstances which may or may not be warranted...and remain completely silent (and 'uncurious'?) as to the repeated daily incidents of genocide in America over...nothing. Articles of clothing and footwear, 'turf', etc. And you remain consistently silent when instances of black on white crime occur. Curious that as well.

Well...come on...not really curious at all, now is it.

Goshin said:

Moderator's Warning:

Mr. Olin, you will please cease the personal insults regarding sexual matters at once. Thank you.

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For the record, I dont at all feel insulted at Johns continued homophobic insinuations. I think it more telling than insulting and a bit curious that he, like a few others here, find implying homosexuality to be an 'insult'. And so easily and readily goes there. Curious indeed!

Well, if you're really worried about genocidal attempts on the African American populace....


blackgenocide.org

cpwill said:

Well, if you're really worried about genocidal attempts on the African American populace....


blackgenocide.org

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Only if you can attribute the genocide to white (or hispanic) 'murderers'. Otherwise...move along...nothing to see here...

Sticking with the OP

in this case race doesnt matter to me unless theres some REAL evidence to show it was a factor

anyway

I think the home owner overreacted by confronting the person, knowing the facts that this was an enclosed porch separate but attached, yes you simply call 911, train your gun on the door entering your home from the porch and wait for the calvery.


Now with that being said, that does not make me think the guy is guilty of a crime. Overacted? yes guilty, no.

The kid also played his part in this because yes it is very very stupid to hide in somebody's porch at any time of day/night.

Now I am assuming that the porch is separate but attached because some peoples porches persay become part of the home over time, door in the middle removed or just a wide entry way put in ect. This could be a factor. Some states also have laws that different about property, home, garages porches etc. ALso in some states it would matter if the porch was locked or if it even had a locking door.


I would also be curious if the kid was actually shot in the chest or in fact cowering in the corner.

all factors we could make up and discuss but I personally dont know the answers.

Bottom line, Just going off of what I read, seems a very legal shoot that happened because a home owner overreacted and a kid made a piss poor judgement call to hide inside someone else porch.


Etc etc etc

Objective-J said:

Sticking with the OP

in this case race doesnt matter to me unless theres some REAL evidence to show it was a factor

anyway

I think the home owner overreacted by confronting the person, knowing the facts that this was an enclosed porch separate but attached, yes you simply call 911, train your gun on the door entering your home from the porch and wait for the calvery.


Now with that being said, that does not make me think the guy is guilty of a crime. Overacted? yes guilty, no.

The kid also played his part in this because yes it is very very stupid to hide in somebody's porch at any time of day/night.

Now I am assuming that the porch is separate but attached because some peoples porches persay become part of the home over time, door in the middle removed or just a wide entry way put in ect. This could be a factor. Some states also have laws that different about property, home, garages porches etc. ALso in some states it would matter if the porch was locked or if it even had a locking door.


I would also be curious if the kid was actually shot in the chest or in fact cowering in the corner.

all factors we could make up and discuss but I personally dont know the answers.

Bottom line, Just going off of what I read, seems a very legal shoot that happened because a home owner overreacted and a kid made a piss poor judgement call to hide inside someone else porch.


Etc etc etc

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I don't know that I consider it an overreaction. The person shot was well old enough to know better than to trespass, as well I would pretty much give one warning in the same situation i.e. "leave, surrender, or prepare yourself."

LaMidRighter said:

I don't know that I consider it an overreaction. The person shot was well old enough to know better than to trespass, as well I would pretty much give one warning in the same situation i.e. "leave, surrender, or prepare yourself."

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Im sure different people feel differently and I certainly wouldnt tell you that you are wrong. I agree there shouldnt have been trespassing as I already posted I just feel its an overrating because 911 wanst called when he knew the cops were right outside and the possible threat wasnt actually in the house.
Now my opinion is based just off of what I have read, there are factors that could change it.