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Thread: Deal OKs bill requiring drug testing for welfare recipients

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    Re: Deal OKs bill requiring drug testing for welfare recipients

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Gonna be yet another giant waste of money. Nothing but a giant pointless waste of money
    Is it any more a waste of money that welfare already is?
    "nah i think the way cons want to turn this into a political issue is funny though" - Philly Boss

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    Re: Deal OKs bill requiring drug testing for welfare recipients

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    When I said "ignoring the problem" I am talking about letting people that use drugs get welfare. That is ignoring a problem.
    Perchance, but I don't see it as high priority. There are well bigger fish to fry. Once they have been so, we can start looking down the list. But to get sidetracked onto something like this is nothing more than political deflection (not by you or other debaters, but by government). Did we demand that the CEO’s and Board of Directors for all the companies that got bailed out recently take drug tests? How about anyone else getting government money? Scholarships? Student Loans? Does this extend to tax deductions? If you wanna claim child credit, should you have to pass a piss test first? Why should society subsidize the cost of raising your kid if you’re using drugs, yes?
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    To me getting a government backed loan( which must be repayed) is not the same as walking out to your mailbox and collecting a paycheck that you did not earn and will not pay back.

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    Re: Deal OKs bill requiring drug testing for welfare recipients

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratrooper View Post
    To me getting a government backed loan( which must be repayed) is not the same as walking out to your mailbox and collecting a paycheck that you did not earn and will not pay back.
    Student loans are often better interest rates than regular ones, subsidized through government force and taxpayer dollars. You're getting government money, yes? Or is it only those dirty, low down freeloaders who deserve this form of treatment. Your government money shouldn't come with strings, just other peoples.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Student loans are often better interest rates than regular ones, subsidized through government force and taxpayer dollars. You're getting government money, yes? Or is it only those dirty, low down freeloaders who deserve this form of treatment. Your government money shouldn't come with strings, just other peoples.
    One could make the argument that subsidizing student loans is an investment if those students go on to get good jobs and become tax payers. In the long run the government will make their money back, no so much with many welfare recipients.

    I'd like to see us help as many as possible reach that upper half of Americans that pay almost all federal income taxes.
    Last edited by Paratrooper; 04-19-12 at 07:07 PM.

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    Re: Deal OKs bill requiring drug testing for welfare recipients

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratrooper View Post
    One could make the argument that subsidizing student loans is an investment if those students go on to get good jobs and become tax payers. In the long run the government will make their money back, no so much with many welfare recipients.

    I'd like to see us help as many as possible reach that upper half of Americans that pay almost all federal income taxes.
    One could make the argument that higher education is an investment in oneself and you should be responsible for your own stuff. Right? I hear that argument a lot from "conservatives", funny how all of a sudden it's a collectivized benefit and that's why you should get free money (OMG...socialism!). No one wants to give up their handouts, but some want to point at other groups and condemn them for their handouts. You have kids? You claim the tax credit? You're offloading the cost of your kids onto the rest of society. How many of y'all jump up and down mad as hell when someone says "it takes a village", yet how many will so quickly feed from the government teat if given half the chance?

    So what's it going to be. Does government money come with stipulations and piss tests or does it not?
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    I realize we have some programs that are for the common good like police, fire fighters, and military. That doesn't mean we should open the flood gates for full fledged socialism.

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    Re: Deal OKs bill requiring drug testing for welfare recipients

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratrooper View Post
    I realize we have some programs that are for the common good like police, fire fighters, and military. That doesn't mean we should open the flood gates for full fledged socialism.
    And yet here you come arunning with your palm turned toward the sky. "I deserve those loans! I deserve those tax breaks!".

    In all seriousness, I have no problem funding higher education on a much larger scale than we do now. An educated populace is a benefit for the Republic. But Welfare has benefits too, Unemployment has benefits too, Medicare has benefits too. This ain't the 1500's anymore. The science, technology, and complexity of society is beyond the scopes of the past. And as we expand, we will need to support large aggregate necessities through the government. I just find it funny that some so vehemently and zealously go after welfare recipients without even thinking about all the government monies they get. How quickly people are willing to throw their fellow man under the bus and how resiliently they will resist the same.

    Everyone wants their money and everyone thinks other people aren't entitled to theirs. So we point our fingers at groups and talk down to them and demand extra sacrifice that we'd never accept ourselves for similar handouts. The hypocrisy of it all.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    And yet here you come arunning with your palm turned toward the sky. "I deserve those loans! I deserve those tax breaks!".

    In all seriousness, I have no problem funding higher education on a much larger scale than we do now. An educated populace is a benefit for the Republic. But Welfare has benefits too, Unemployment has benefits too, Medicare has benefits too. This ain't the 1500's anymore. The science, technology, and complexity of society is beyond the scopes of the past. And as we expand, we will need to support large aggregate necessities through the government. I just find it funny that some so vehemently and zealously go after welfare recipients without even thinking about all the government monies they get. How quickly people are willing to throw their fellow man under the bus and how resiliently they will resist the same.

    Everyone wants their money and everyone thinks other people aren't entitled to theirs. So we point our fingers at groups and talk down to them and demand extra sacrifice that we'd never accept ourselves for similar handouts. The hypocrisy of it all.
    Actually I'd be just fine without those benefits too. All that is nice in fantasy land but right now we have accumulated so much debt our grandchildren will be paying on it. Half the country pays the tab while the other half asks for more.

    How's that war on poverty working out?
    Last edited by Paratrooper; 04-19-12 at 09:17 PM.

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    Re: Deal OKs bill requiring drug testing for welfare recipients

    Quote Originally Posted by Thorgasm View Post


    I don't see how drug testing is going to make people responsible. That's your fallacy.
    It's called, you want money, you stay clean. Don't stay clean? Starve.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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