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Thread: Deal OKs bill requiring drug testing for welfare recipients

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    Re: Deal OKs bill requiring drug testing for welfare recipients

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Like I said...sometimes spending more is better than not spending and letting a problem continue.
    I think what you are missing is that your "solution" will create bigger and more expensive problems.
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    Re: Deal OKs bill requiring drug testing for welfare recipients

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Read more: RN-T.com - Deal OKs bill requiring drug testing for welfare recipients

    Gonna be yet another giant waste of money. Nothing but a giant pointless waste of money

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    I can see both sides pretty clearly.

    Side One: Money is fungible. If someone is using money to buy drugs, they aren't using entitlement money for the purpose it was intended.
    Side Two: If you don't let a mom collect welfare, she's going to use drugs anyway, so her kids are going to go hungry (hungrier).

    Maybe in order to keep your kids you should have to test drug free. That's solve Side Two. It may be time to consider the rights of children instead of the rights of their drug addicted parents.
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    Re: Deal OKs bill requiring drug testing for welfare recipients

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    That's their problem. Not mine.
    That's really what it boils down to, isn't it?

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    Re: Deal OKs bill requiring drug testing for welfare recipients

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    I can see both sides pretty clearly.

    Side One: Money is fungible. If someone is using money to buy drugs, they aren't using entitlement money for the purpose it was intended.
    Side Two: If you don't let a mom collect welfare, she's going to use drugs anyway, so her kids are going to go hungry (hungrier).

    Maybe in order to keep your kids you should have to test drug free. That's solve Side Two. It may be time to consider the rights of children instead of the rights of their drug addicted parents.
    That isn't free either.

    Also, imagine if you were a child and snatched up and either warehoused or forced to live with strangers.
    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    Being a psychiatric patient does not mean that you are mentally ill.



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    Re: Deal OKs bill requiring drug testing for welfare recipients

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    That's really what it boils down to, isn't it?
    Hey, I might be more sympathetic in this thread if people didn't want to ban welfare recipients from buying certain kinds of food/drink just because they are welfare recipients.
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    Re: Deal OKs bill requiring drug testing for welfare recipients

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Maybe in order to keep your kids you should have to test drug free. That's solve Side Two. It may be time to consider the rights of children instead of the rights of their drug addicted parents.
    I think this is a fair question. But, it leads to further questions...

    What is "better"? Is it better to be in a relatively stable, albeit imperfect home? Or, is it better to be shuffled around in a system that is essentially sterile and uncaring, sand thus unable to ever have any sense of stability?

    I can see where some cases the imperfect household would be better, and some cases where foster care would be better, but I don't see where a blanket policy would serve the overall interests of the community well.

    I'm thinking out loud here as much as anything else. I'm not sure I have a single answer to your point, but I do think it is worth pondering.

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    Aren't welfare entitlements intended to get someone back on their feet, not be a lifetime free paycheck?

    If someone is doing drugs they are being counter productive because they are taking possible employment off the table ( jobs that require someone to be drug free which are many).

    As for the children ( I don't think people should be allowed to have children if they don't have the means to provide for them, but that's a topic for another day).

    If a parent spends their entitlement money on drugs instead of taking care of their family then the children should be relocated to another family or foster care. The parent who does drugs is the one that causes this hardship for the children not the government. No one is forcing them to do drugs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Like I said...sometimes spending more is better than not spending and letting a problem continue.
    it would make the problem worse though and be more expensive. if someone canter get a job and be a productive member of society, sending them to jail is more expensive than helping them before they get to that point. also a person who has trouble functioning in society with a criminal record on top has an even harder time becoming a productive member of society, thus they become even more expensive. in the end, everyone loses. the tax payers who have to pay more for this person amd the person who finds other harder to get a job and has no real alternatives in life. nobody is better off in this scenario.

    the better approach is intervention before thar point is reached, but it has to very structured in a way that changes attitudes and gives a bit of fear in the person being helped so they are motivated to change if what is lacking is in their attitude or skillsets.

    otherwise we are enabling bad behavior and nobody benefits from that either. the only goal if any successful program is to turn people into productive people who are a benefit to themselves and society. otherwise we run the risk of rising crime rates and a degeneration of the social order. its not about responsibility, morality, punishment, or revenge. in the end, the only thng that makes a difference is results.

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    Re: Deal OKs bill requiring drug testing for welfare recipients

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Hey, I might be more sympathetic in this thread if people didn't want to ban welfare recipients from buying certain kinds of food/drink just because they are welfare recipients.
    Should they be able to buy cigarettes?
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
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    Re: Deal OKs bill requiring drug testing for welfare recipients

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    it would make the problem worse though and be more expensive. if someone canter get a job and be a productive member of society, sending them to jail is more expensive than helping them before they get to that point. also a person who has trouble functioning in society with a criminal record on top has an even harder time becoming a productive member of society, thus they become even more expensive. in the end, everyone loses. the tax payers who have to pay more for this person amd the person who finds other harder to get a job and has no real alternatives in life. nobody is better off in this scenario.

    the better approach is intervention before thar point is reached, but it has to very structured in a way that changes attitudes and gives a bit of fear in the person being helped so they are motivated to change if what is lacking is in their attitude or skillsets.

    otherwise we are enabling bad behavior and nobody benefits from that either. the only goal if any successful program is to turn people into productive people who are a benefit to themselves and society. otherwise we run the risk of rising crime rates and a degeneration of the social order. its not about responsibility, morality, punishment, or revenge. in the end, the only thng that makes a difference is results.
    Believe me, I know the problems associated with having a record. And I believe reform is needed in that department.

    But again, ignoring a problem is just as worthless as spending less money.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

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