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Thread: Deal OKs bill requiring drug testing for welfare recipients

  1. #131
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    If you want to test for alcohol.... Well I could go along with that too.

    Welfare is a privilege not a right. If you can afford drugs and alcohol then maybe your getting more assistance than you need or your priorities are jacked up.

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    Re: Deal OKs bill requiring drug testing for welfare recipients

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratrooper View Post
    If you want to test for alcohol.... Well I could go along with that too.

    Welfare is a privilege not a right. If you can afford drugs and alcohol then maybe your getting more assistance than you need or your priorities are jacked up.
    Thats great if the recipient has a criminal drug/alcohol record. Everyone else that does not have a criminal record should not be tested. Look at the numbers in Florida had the test been chosen for people with a record of drug use the cost of testing would have been much lower. Many people that apply for welfare are not drug users and it is ridiculous to test them all hoping that the tests will weed out drug users. As those Liberals keep pointing out perhaps the same standard should be applied to everyone that receives public monies.

    When we pay taxes our money becomes not our own money but money that belongs to the public at large. And it is literally impossible to be an American citizen and not pay taxes in some shape or form. Of course some pay more and some pay less. When people receive social security benefits or we get our tax returns that money did not magically go from our pockets and return to our pockets it left our possession. Not everyone needs social security when they get old enough to claim it. Why should the rest of us give our money to those people? And tax returns come from the government as well as any other monies including welfare. Tax returns are our money just as well as anything that taxes paid for. No taxes no tax returns. Why not test all social security recipients and people receiving tax returns? Why should any of our money go to people breaking the law? Wouldnt tax returns and social security be privileges not, rights as well?

    ANd how else would this new standard be used? Perhaps we should test everyone that uses public roads or anything to do with the public. Where exactly is the line drawn?

  3. #133
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    Re: Deal OKs bill requiring drug testing for welfare recipients

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    I have no problem with people whose lives suck taking drugs to make those lives more bearable. Sometimes you need a pick me up. I do not get this hang up some people have against certain kinds of highs. We spend our lives in search of highs. Love and sex are two of the most prominent. Power and excitement work, too. We ban weed because people get high from it, should be ban roller coasters, too? They both produce a rush using brain chemicals. What's the difference? Life is too short not to enjoy every moment of it that you can.
    Drugs are still illegal....drugs kill people...taking drugs feed cartels and make for mass murders like in mexico....I could go on for a half an hour.
    I find your post just plain silly to be honest....next time you need to get high to make your lousy life more bearable...take a rollercoaster ride and/or have sex...they are both legal

  4. #134
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    Re: Deal OKs bill requiring drug testing for welfare recipients

    Quote Originally Posted by nathanj63 View Post
    I can understand the sentiment behind wanting welfare recipients to pass a drug test (though I disagree with it). However, the fact of the matter is that it is a MYTH that many of the people who receive welfare use it on drugs. This was clearly shown by the results of the Florida state law that required drug testing for welfare recipients. Only 2.6 percent of those tested failed the test (an additional 1% failed to take the test for whatever reason). Because Florida reimbursed the $30 fee to take the test to those that passed, the law ended up costing an extra $45K. In the end, it really is a law that might make the Republican base happy, but in the end is fairly useless.

    And me personally, I think it is pretty dumb for a positive drug test for marijuana to prohibit anyone from doing anything. It's no big deal.

    No Savings Are Found From Welfare Drug Tests - New York Times
    Does the law require all adult members of the household to be tested?
    Did this study find out how many potential applicants, decided not to apply because of the new law?
    These studies don't take into account fraudulent applications, were an adult member of the household is not listed in the application.

    These studies lack comprehensive coverage.
    I'd be wary of their accuracy.
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  5. #135
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    Re: Deal OKs bill requiring drug testing for welfare recipients

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratrooper View Post
    If you want to test for alcohol.... Well I could go along with that too.

    Welfare is a privilege not a right. If you can afford drugs and alcohol then maybe your getting more assistance than you need or your priorities are jacked up.
    All I can really related to these discussions is my personal experience with individuals using state benefits to subsidize their life.

    I've known many people on state food stamp programs, whose family members list false household statuses.
    I've known many people who use state medicaid (for their kids) and SCHIP programs, when they have access to very affordable insurance.

    Most of these people have been my coworkers, they make no bones about abusing the system.
    Abusing these things, is the status quo, from what I've seen, to the point where people who are earning $50k (or more) a year are drawing all kinds of state benefits and burning their excess cash on superficial things.

    Edit:
    To summarize, not only do I favor drug and alcohol testing, but also surprise in home visits and mandatory financial literacy classes.
    Last edited by Harry Guerrilla; 04-21-12 at 09:19 PM.
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  6. #136
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    Re: Deal OKs bill requiring drug testing for welfare recipients

    Instead of all the drug testing and whatnot (why is alcohol exempt, and for that matter other non-essential expenditures?), I do not understand why they do not go with a simpler solution. A "welfare card" similar to an atm card, it gets recharged every month, and can only be used for necessities. I do not think it would be that hard to implement.. here instead of typing it all out again, I posted this a while back on another thread on the same topic:

    Quote Originally Posted by marduc View Post
    Would it be that hard to issue a plastic card or set up a welfare account that could only be used for food, housing expenses, transportation costs, and medical treatment?

    Is there a potential for abuse[?] always and in all things, but not compared to just sending a check in the mail which can then be converted to cash with ease. This way welfare money can be used strictly to insure an individuals or a family's welfare.

    If they have other money that they earn, there is no way to really control how that gets spent, other than enforcing income reporting measures and insuring that the amount of assistance available is tied to that (ideally on a month by month basis). This leaves money under the table, side jobs, illegal income ect. this we cannot control all that much, but controlling where the welfare money goes, and the limit of money according to legitimate reported income would account for the majority of recipients, and take care of a lions share of waste and inappropriate allocation of funds.
    and a follow up response to a question of how you insure it is not spent on a flatscreen tv or whatnot at walmart:

    Quote Originally Posted by marduc View Post
    That part is easy, it is just a matter of having entries in the store product database, similar to how taxed goods and non-taxed goods are accounted for. You go through checkout all your items get scanned, you have an amount of your purchase eligible to be charged to your welfare account based upon what goods were flagged as welfare eligible and which are not. You scan your card, those get paid for, then you have to come up with hundreds of dollars out of pocket to pay for that TV.
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  7. #137
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    Re: Deal OKs bill requiring drug testing for welfare recipients

    Quote Originally Posted by marduc View Post
    Instead of all the drug testing and whatnot (why is alcohol exempt, and for that matter other non-essential expenditures?), I do not understand why they do not go with a simpler solution. A "welfare card" similar to an atm card, it gets recharged every month, and can only be used for necessities. I do not think it would be that hard to implement.. here instead of typing it all out again, I posted this a while back on another thread on the same topic:



    and a follow up response to a question of how you insure it is not spent on a flatscreen tv or whatnot at walmart:
    The EBT cards for food stamps are like this.
    No more actual stamps, the problem is, that you can still trade these things for cash or find an unethical business owner who will allow you to purchase non approved items with it.

    It's becoming more rampant.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  8. #138
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    Re: Deal OKs bill requiring drug testing for welfare recipients

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    The EBT cards for food stamps are like this.
    No more actual stamps, the problem is, that you can still trade these things for cash or find an unethical business owner who will allow you to purchase non approved items with it.

    It's becoming more rampant.
    Which is why the card needs to be issued in a persons name so that it cannot be transferred. As far as the unethical business owners - I do not know how the system currently works, but it seems if you had to scan the items and the card left the premises with the shopper it would be difficult to rectify this after the fact (yeah the corner grocer does not typically have a scanner - how much do they cost? just tangentially thinking aloud, it could be required that they do scan all food card purchases). It seems that if a scanner were required, they would have to ring up "dummy" items to make up for say a cigarette purchase, and then put them back on the shelves to make up the cost.. as I said, there is still potential for abuse, but it would be nigh impossible to eliminate abuse, but any steps towards mitigating abuse should be pursued.

    Are these cards rechargeable, or do they use them and dispose them when the amount is used up?
    Last edited by marduc; 04-21-12 at 10:01 PM.
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  9. #139
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    Re: Deal OKs bill requiring drug testing for welfare recipients

    Quote Originally Posted by marduc View Post
    Which is why the card needs to be issued in a persons name so that it cannot be transferred. As far as the unethical business owners - I do not know how the system currently works, but it seems if you had to scan the items and the card left the premises with the shopper it would be difficult to rectify this after the fact (yeah the corner grocer does not typically have a scanner - how much do they cost? just tangentially thinking aloud, it could be required that they do scan all food card purchases). It seems that if a scanner were required, they would have to ring up "dummy" items to make up for say a cigarette purchase, and then put them back on the shelves to make up the cost.. as I said, there is still potential for abuse, but it would be nigh impossible to eliminate abuse, but any steps towards mitigating abuse should be pursued.

    Are these cards rechargeable, or do they use them and dispose them when the amount is used up?
    They're currently issued to the primary applicant, in their name and are reloaded until the benefits expire.

    Some business owners use manual registers or just swipe the card and return cash to the recipient.
    Other people will take another person to the grocery store, swipe their card, for their friend, who returns the favor with cash.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  10. #140
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    Re: Deal OKs bill requiring drug testing for welfare recipients

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    They're currently issued to the primary applicant, in their name and are reloaded until the benefits expire.

    Some business owners use manual registers or just swipe the card and return cash to the recipient.
    Other people will take another person to the grocery store, swipe their card, for their friend, who returns the favor with cash.
    And what kind of proof do you have that this type of fraud is done by the majority of the recipients? BTW the penalty for the fraud that you are talking about is being banned from ever receiving any benefits ever again. Its not like its ok to defraud the government. That being said I do not support people who are not actually in need getting welfare. I think that if welfare was truly for emergency situations and not just because you are under a certain amount of income in a given time, that there would be more support for it. But the scope of welfare has gotten out of hand especially since the economy has been down.

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