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Thread: Deal OKs bill requiring drug testing for welfare recipients

  1. #121
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    Re: Deal OKs bill requiring drug testing for welfare recipients

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    I would rather they lose their parents than grow up in a drug house.
    Alcohol is a drug. Do you contend that most homes in America are drug houses?
    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
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  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thorgasm View Post
    Alcohol is a drug. Do you contend that most homes in America are drug houses?
    If someone was an alcoholic, absolutely they should lose their kids.

    Welfare was intended to help people get back on their feet not be a lifetime multi generational benefit.

    By letting kids grow up in a family of alcoholics and drug users we are only setting these kids up for failure.

    I don't think marijuana should be illegal but it is. I as a soldier cannot use it without losing my job, why should welfare recipient be treated any differently?

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    Re: Deal OKs bill requiring drug testing for welfare recipients

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratrooper View Post
    I don't think marijuana should be illegal but it is. I as a soldier cannot use it without losing my job, why should welfare recipient be treated any differently?
    This comes off as, "If I can't have it, then nobody else should, either!"

  4. #124
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    Re: Deal OKs bill requiring drug testing for welfare recipients

    Quote Originally Posted by Thorgasm View Post
    Alcohol is a drug. Do you contend that most homes in America are drug houses?
    Nice try but you know full well that I am talking about illegal drugs. But hey, anyone that is a certifide alcoholic can have their children taken away so not sure why you used that example.
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  5. #125
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    Re: Deal OKs bill requiring drug testing for welfare recipients

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Obviously I don't think that or I wouldn't have said it in the first place.
    I'm also in favor of putting every single dealer, without exception, to death. Without exception you are in favor of killing all dealers. Since you just denied it I guess that you were saying that its a personal want? So I guess I stand corrected lol.



    We have laws for a reason. If you break the laws, you pay the penalty. Why is that so hard for you to comprehend?
    We do not have laws that permanently take away children for possession of an controlled substance. The laws that you are referring to are in your head. Then you take the kids away and at least they're not raised to repeat the mom's mistakes. Works for me. Such laws would destroy any semblance of liberty in this country. It would be yet another law that would undoubtedly be taken advantage of by the religious right.

    I can see it now the state taking away kids because the parents were Atheists and could end up being criminals, because you know how those Atheists have no morals and do drugs (for those that missed it, that was sarcasm). And if you add the two together you end up with North Korea. So no I do not agree with fantasizing about killing all drug dealers or taking away children from their parents. Children should always stay with their parents unless it is a danger to their well being. And there is no evidence that every parent that does drugs is a danger to their children. WHen we start using such standards it would be easy to apply that rational to all things that corrupt the minds of children. Its a door that should not be further opened.

  6. #126
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    Re: Deal OKs bill requiring drug testing for welfare recipients

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    We do not have laws that permanently take away children for possession of an controlled substance. The laws that you are referring to are in your head. Then you take the kids away and at least they're not raised to repeat the mom's mistakes. Works for me. Such laws would destroy any semblance of liberty in this country. It would be yet another law that would undoubtedly be taken advantage of by the religious right.
    If the person using the illegal drugs is a repeat offender (as is often the case) then the kids might as well be considered as having been taken away from their parents on a permanent basis. Not saying it is..but it might as well be.

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    I can see it now the state taking away kids because the parents were Atheists and could end up being criminals, because you know how those Atheists have no morals and do drugs (for those that missed it, that was sarcasm). And if you add the two together you end up with North Korea. So no I do not agree with fantasizing about killing all drug dealers or taking away children from their parents. Children should always stay with their parents unless it is a danger to their well being. And there is no evidence that every parent that does drugs is a danger to their children. WHen we start using such standards it would be easy to apply that rational to all things that corrupt the minds of children. Its a door that should not be further opened.
    Since when did atheism and religion come into this discussion? And who in the hell said that religious folks don't do/deal drugs or are not on welfare? Sarcastic or not it was an idiotic thing to say.

    And yes, any parent that does drugs is a danger to their kids for the simple fact that 9 times outta 10 the kid will end up doing the same, or worse drugs as they grow up and quite possibly end up in jail due to their parents irresponsible influence.

    As for killing drug dealers...why not? How many thousands of people are dead because of drug dealers? Yet the only time they are ever charged with murder is if they can be tied directly to someone that died....which is rarely. We put serial killers to death because they killed so many people...why not drug dealers?
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    Re: Deal OKs bill requiring drug testing for welfare recipients

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    If the person using the illegal drugs is a repeat offender (as is often the case) then the kids might as well be considered as having been taken away from their parents on a permanent basis. Not saying it is..but it might as well be.
    Yes in extreme cases but that is not what Cephus was asserting. Cephus said that he is in favor of putting all drug dealers to death. That is context of why I said what i said it has nothing to do with your point.



    Since when did atheism and religion come into this discussion?
    I was talking to Cephus not you.
    And who in the hell said that religious folks don't do/deal drugs or are not on welfare?
    Not me or anyone in this conversation but thanx for sharing some strawman BS.
    Sarcastic or not it was an idiotic thing to say.
    Are you Cephus's mom or something? If so then I understand where you are coming from if not than that was pathetic.

    And yes, any parent that does drugs is a danger to their kids for the simple fact that 9 times outta 10 the kid will end up doing the same, or worse drugs as they grow up and quite possibly end up in jail due to their parents irresponsible influence.
    Did you make that up yourself? I simply do not agree that drugs are evil so shoot me.

    As for killing drug dealers...why not? How many thousands of people are dead because of drug dealers? Yet the only time they are ever charged with murder is if they can be tied directly to someone that died....which is rarely. We put serial killers to death because they killed so many people...why not drug dealers?
    Now you are being ridiculous. I guess is we use your logic we should kill everyone involved in the tobacco industry and alcohol and firearms/bows and motor vehicles..... Why not just put everyone in a padded room so they wont possibly get hurt? I know lets outlaw corners, they could injure someone.

    It is not the governments place to tell an adult that they cannot do something that may be harmful to themselves. ANd outlawing something because it might cause harm to someone else would create a disaster of policies.

  8. #128
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    Re: Deal OKs bill requiring drug testing for welfare recipients

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    I was talking to Cephus not you.
    Last I knew this was a debate forum. Which means that anyone can reply to your posts regardless if who you were talking to.

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    Did you make that up yourself? I simply do not agree that drugs are evil so shoot me.
    Nope. Its based on personal experiances.

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    Now you are being ridiculous. I guess is we use your logic we should kill everyone involved in the tobacco industry and alcohol and firearms/bows and motor vehicles..... Why not just put everyone in a padded room so they wont possibly get hurt? I know lets outlaw corners, they could injure someone.
    Both tobacco, alcohol, guns/bows are legal as such the responsibility does not lie with the companies that sell them. Illegal drugs are just that...illegal. As such the person that makes it and sells it is totally responsible for the death that it caused.

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    It is not the governments place to tell an adult that they cannot do something that may be harmful to themselves. ANd outlawing something because it might cause harm to someone else would create a disaster of policies.
    Bold: Wow...in that case then wth are we doing with laws against murder? Theft? Rape? Seriously...did you even read that before you posted it?
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  9. #129
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    Re: Deal OKs bill requiring drug testing for welfare recipients

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post

    Bold: Wow...in that case then wth are we doing with laws against...
    Except we know that murder, theft, etc HARMS - hence why they're illegal - IMO, terrible analogy.
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    Re: Deal OKs bill requiring drug testing for welfare recipients

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Last I knew this was a debate forum. Which means that anyone can reply to your posts regardless if who you were talking to.
    Of course you can say whatever you please, but at least realize that when someone says something specifically to someone it was not a general statement. Plus you seemed to have ignored the context in its entirety adnd added an strawman argument in its place. In short you are in left field and ball was not.



    Nope. Its based on personal experiances.
    Personal experiences while important to your decision making turns out to be just your opinion to the rest of us.



    Both tobacco, alcohol, guns/bows are legal as such the responsibility does not lie with the companies that sell them. Illegal drugs are just that...illegal. As such the person that makes it and sells it is totally responsible for the death that it caused.
    True illegal drugs are illegal, cant deny that at all. But so was alcohol at one point and now alcohol is not illegal. And since the effects of alcohol (ie on society) is much the same as todays illegal drugs it means that your argument is one of convinence not factual.


    Bold: Wow...in that case then wth are we doing with laws against murder? Theft? Rape? Seriously...did you even read that before you posted it?
    Yes I see that when you take an sentence out of the paragraph that it lacks context. If this is something that you commonly do my guess is that you have trouble understanding written words. What you did by taking the sentence out of context, is create a strawman finger pointing irrelevant childish assertion.


    Ten Most dangerous drugs

    1. Heroin
    2. Cocaine
    3. Barbiturates
    4. Street Methadone
    5. Ketamine
    6. Alcohol
    7. Amphetamines
    8. Benzodiazepines
    9. Buprenorphine
    10. Tobacco

    Wouldnt it be wise then to test TANF recipients for alcohol and tobacco as well? Alcohol is number 5 on a list of most dangerous drugs and Meth/amphetamines is number 6. And missing from the list is marijuana, yet that is what will be the primary drug being tested for.

    I agree that there are many people taking advantage of welfare. But as Florida has shown drug testing will not reduce the number of welfare recipients in any meaningful way. Personally IMO welfare should be like the CCC, meaning that you do not receive anything without working for it. There are plenty of things that society needs workers for. Instead of having permanent public workers (not in all cases but for the most part) put the truly needy to work. ANd since it has been proven in court that you can test workers for drugs when safety is an issue, then do the testing when the person seeks employment with the government. Welfare would really then only be for the disabled since all able bodies would be put to work. Those who did not want to work would not get anything.

    And since the majority would learn work ethics there would not be massive amounts of government employees. Of course there would be at first but the key would to keep everyones pay the same and do not give raises and require these people to obtain work in the private sector in a certain amount of time. Emphasize that the government job is a stepping stone not a goal.
    Last edited by FreedomFromAll; 04-21-12 at 02:02 PM.

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