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Thread: CNN Poll: 7 out of 10 support 'Buffett Rule'

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    Re: CNN Poll: 7 out of 10 support 'Buffett Rule'

    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    Makes perfect sense. 30% right wing nut jobs. The extreme righties.
    If you believe the buffett rule you are either clueless about the reality involving tax rates or you are dishonest. No one in the middle class comes close to paying an effective income tax rate of 30% given a top marginal rate of 28% doesn't hit until around 178K IIRC

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    Re: CNN Poll: 7 out of 10 support 'Buffett Rule'

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Foley View Post
    Gee, I thought the rich payed a majority of the taxes. It can't be both ways.

    A) If the rich pay a "majority of the taxes" than raising taxes on the rich will raise a considerable mount.

    B) If the rich don't pay a "majority of the taxes" than what you said could be true.

    Make up your mind, which one is it? A or B?
    This is an addition problem and a subtraction problem. The one term Marxist flexible president Barrach Hussein Obama wants to add additional burdens to those who already carry a substantial part of the load. He wants to subtract capital from the private sector because wrecking capital formation is a central tenet of Marxist beliefs. If people can continue to create jobs in the private sector than government need not be all consuming and all powerful. That would spoil the dictatorship of the proles.

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    Re: CNN Poll: 7 out of 10 support 'Buffett Rule'

    Quote Originally Posted by Hare View Post
    Demographics are detailed here, not sure why this would be considered media bias. .

    http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2012/im...4/16/rel4c.pdf
    Would you help me understand this poll? How many men were asked? How many women?
    How many Democrats were asked? How many Independents? How many Republicans?
    How many people were asked in each age group?

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    Re: CNN Poll: 7 out of 10 support 'Buffett Rule'

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Put this in the Bias Forum; 7 out of 10 Democrats.
    Says who? the sample was 910 registered voters. Party affiliation is irrelevant as long as the sample is random.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: CNN Poll: 7 out of 10 support 'Buffett Rule'

    SB I would tend to agree except when you see a poll that comes out plus 11 for dems from the same group---CNN, you tend to get skepitcal about their polling methods.

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    Re: CNN Poll: 7 out of 10 support 'Buffett Rule'

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Says who? the sample was 910 registered voters. Party affiliation is irrelevant as long as the sample is random.
    So if the pool was 2/3rd democrats and 1/3rd Republicans as long as they were queried randomly that would make for a good sample? It is a common practice to seed the pool to skew the results in the direction you want. We cannot tell because we don't have the numbers that actually matter do we?

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    Re: CNN Poll: 7 out of 10 support 'Buffett Rule'

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Actually quicker considering 47% pay zero and are constantly draining the country of resources. Also...considering we are in debt and deficit spending every second, that number continues to climb pretty much every minute. No big deal though...right? As long as the leeches insist on draining the resources and not paying their 'fair share' they can just keep dumping their debt on future generations and continue to whine that the only ones in this country that ARE paying their fair share arent paying more.
    It must be pleasant to live in your world...unfortunately that pesky reality thingy keeps biting me in the ass.

    "The Working Poor Do Pay Taxes

    Do the working poor pay taxes? My conservative friends rant about how 40% of the people in this country pay no taxes, but that's a bit of sloppy thinking. More precisely, around 40% pay no federal income tax. That leaves many other taxes for them to pay either directly or indirectly.

    Social security taxes, now split into social security and Medicare, totals 15.3% of all income earned for those who make less than $106,000 in 2009. That's what a self employed handyman or factory worker pays. The working poor may pays only 7.65% directly because the employer pays the other half, but economists will tell you that directly-paid wages are a function of total labor cost to employers, so the other half is paid indirectly through lowered wages.

    Some say this isn't a tax, since it's for retirement. The truth is the money is not set aside in a retirement fund, and never has been. Benefits are paid by taxing current workers, making social security essentially a welfare program. If we renamed the income tax the "Individual Government Services Investment Fund," would you then say you pay no taxes?

    All of us pay sales taxes as well, which in some areas can be as high as 10% when state and local taxes are combined. Where I live in Colorado, we pay 6.7% (state and local). These taxes are paid by all, but make up a larger percentage of the income of the poor, because as much as 50% of their income may be spent on taxable items. In other words, a poor family may pay out as much as 3% of their total income in sales taxes, while a wealthy family is likely to pay 1% or less.

    I need to stop right here and point out that we are at 18.3% of income for some working men and women with just these two taxes. Warren Buffet recently mentioned that he paid only 17% of his income in all federal taxes while his secretary paid 30%. If we assume he paid 1% of total income in sale's taxes (unlikely to be that high), we now arrive at an interesting truth: That some poor families who pay no federal income tax pay a higher percentage of income in taxes than Warren Buffet.

    Some will quickly point out that the child credits and the Earned Income Tax Credits refund much of this. Partly this is true, and these can be seen as welfare in some cases, since for some people they "refund" income taxes that were never paid, but not all workers have children. In any case, we probably should address this as a separate and complicating issue. Many of the wealthy get welfare as well (hundreds of billions annually according to he latest research).
    Other Taxes Paid by the Working Poor

    State income taxes range from nothing up to 8% in some states. Here in Colorado, for example, we have a flat tax rate of 4.63%. These taxes are paid by more of the poor than federal income taxes, because there are fewer deductions available and they they start at lower income levels.

    Property taxes are paid by all working poor as well. Even those who rent are paying the true cost of property taxes. This is clear once you understand the principle that in business all costs have to be passed on to the consumer. If taxes were doubled on property, obviously landlords would not decide to eat the loss - they pass the cost on.

    The same is true of taxes on all imported goods. Those costs are passed on in the pricing, and so are paid by all consumers. Of course, this is a larger percentage of income for those who must spend a larger percentage of their income on basic goods.

    By the way, the costs of corporate income taxes are also passed on in the products and services produced. If taxes on profits were paid only as owners received those profits as income, prices would likely be lower, so we pay those taxes indirectly as consumers. That's a complicated subject to be covered at another time (yes it suggests that getting rid of corporate taxes might benefit the poor).

    Now, let me clarify this a bit more, because I am sure that some will argue that renters don't pay property taxes or the other half of that social security tax, or anything that I designate as "indirect." But imagine for a moment if businesses paid the total social security and income tax burden that we now pay. Would we really say that we pay no taxes? It would be technically true that no individual person paid, but of course wages would be adjusted downward to compensate for the new taxes on business.

    Let me simplify this further. If in our business we could hire an employee and boost our revenue by $40,000 annually, we could pay $35,000 in total employee costs (assuming we want at least $5,000 additional profit for the trouble). If we were made to pay no other costs, we could pay the whole $35,000 to the employee. But what if we had to pay $15,000 in various taxes? Then we could only offer $20,000 in wages. So who's really paying those taxes? Clearly the employee.

    Only the efforts of real people produce the wealth that is then taken as taxes, so we have to look beyond the labels and forms to see whose efforts are really paying what. You can hide the true cost to people in the various ways you arrange things, but the working poor do pay taxes directly and indirectly. Most people work by the way. According to the U.S. Census Bureau, the percentage of Americans on welfare is about 2% ."

    The Working Poor Do Pay Taxes

  8. #48
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    Re: CNN Poll: 7 out of 10 support 'Buffett Rule'

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    If you believe the buffett rule you are either clueless about the reality involving tax rates or you are dishonest. No one in the middle class comes close to paying an effective income tax rate of 30% given a top marginal rate of 28% doesn't hit until around 178K IIRC
    Or I don't have Fake News and Charles Krautlicker filling my ear with the typical drivels they spew.

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    Re: CNN Poll: 7 out of 10 support 'Buffett Rule'

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    This is an addition problem and a subtraction problem. The one term Marxist flexible president Barrach Hussein Obama wants to add additional burdens to those who already carry a substantial part of the load. He wants to subtract capital from the private sector because wrecking capital formation is a central tenet of Marxist beliefs. If people can continue to create jobs in the private sector than government need not be all consuming and all powerful. That would spoil the dictatorship of the proles.
    Obama is a globalist pimp not a populist.

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    Death2Globalists Matt Foley's Avatar
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    Re: CNN Poll: 7 out of 10 support 'Buffett Rule'

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    Attachment 67126058

    AGI numbers attached for clarification, someone seems to want to verify them.
    Corporate tax chart included for the other person shooting out misinformation.

    Your rhetoric seems to be separated from reality.
    So the rich no longer pay for the majority of government, nice 180 there.

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