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Thread: O'Keefe Voter Fraud Investigation: Young Man Offered Holder's Ballot

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    Re: O'Keefe Voter Fraud Investigation: Young Man Offered Holder's Ballot

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    Im ****ing sick and tired of liberals playing dumb, deaf and blind on this subject.
    The system is set up so that it is nearly impossible to catch anyone doing so.
    How can you catch anyone when the system is set up so that there is no way to question a voter's identity?
    There is a way and I have explained it already. Requiring photo ID changes none of that. Read back.

    If you can't prove that there's a problem of any significance, it's not playing "dumb deaf and blind" to say that you have no prove of any problem of significance, it's stating fact.

    Do you lock your doors at home? If you have never been robbed, why do you? After all, no proof you are going to get robbed right?
    That's exactly what happens in some places I've lived in, it's a small village, everyone knows everyone, almost no crime, people don't feel the need to lock their doors. You know what it's called when you make people scare of a problem that you can't prove exists? It's called fear mongering. It's usually done by people who hope to benefit from it.
    Last edited by nonpareil; 04-18-12 at 08:14 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Free_Radical View Post

    And I wasn't making an appeal to authority, I was making an appeal to the philosophical body of work of the founders, the worth and content of which should be well-known to anyone with a cursory understanding of basic history and philosophy.

    Brian

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    Re: O'Keefe Voter Fraud Investigation: Young Man Offered Holder's Ballot

    Quote Originally Posted by Quag View Post
    Again we do this here in Canada (and many other jurisidctions) and there is no problem with the cost nor with people being disenfranchised. I do not see how it would become either expensive or disenfranchising in the states to use a system such as ours for voter ID.
    So what if you "do not see"? It's not up to you.


    Agreed it is possible, but it will add another level of difficulty/cost to anyone trying to perpetrate such a fraud. Requiring voter ID (again I am using Canadian standards, really shouldn't have to keep repeating that but some ppl here are intentionally blind to what my posts actually say)adds that extra level of security making it more difficult. I don't know how stringent voter registration is in the USA, but I think that it should obviously have a certain standard. Ie you shouldnt be just able to walk in or mail in a request for voter registration without any proof of eligibility. I seriously doubt it would be possible to ever make a system 100% fraud proof but you should try tomake it as safe as possible with regards to cost/rights.
    Registration is separate from voting itself. We are discussing the US situation, I really fail to see how the Canadian standard has relevance here when it's not going to implemented in the US.
    Quote Originally Posted by Free_Radical View Post

    And I wasn't making an appeal to authority, I was making an appeal to the philosophical body of work of the founders, the worth and content of which should be well-known to anyone with a cursory understanding of basic history and philosophy.

    Brian

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    Re: O'Keefe Voter Fraud Investigation: Young Man Offered Holder's Ballot

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    I know people are stealing, I admitted to not knowing how much.
    So if it's a few cents, how much money and time are you willing to spend trying stop that few cents from being lost?
    Quote Originally Posted by Free_Radical View Post

    And I wasn't making an appeal to authority, I was making an appeal to the philosophical body of work of the founders, the worth and content of which should be well-known to anyone with a cursory understanding of basic history and philosophy.

    Brian

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    Re: O'Keefe Voter Fraud Investigation: Young Man Offered Holder's Ballot

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    Funny I could turn that completely around and say the same thing about the democrat position. Yeah, I think you are going back on ignore.

    No wonder you wanted to start a thread to redefine racism. You wanted to define it so you could throw the race card at every conservative policy idea you see.
    You say you could but you have shown yourself to be unable to make any sort of case in that regard.

    I do not remember throwing race at "every conservative idea" I see. Perhaps you can link to that?

    And if a conservative idea does impact race, it is right and proper to mention it. Nobody should have any problem with that in any way shape or form.

    It seems you fear exposure of some conservative ideas to the harsh glare of sunlight.
    Last edited by haymarket; 04-18-12 at 08:38 AM.
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    Re: O'Keefe Voter Fraud Investigation: Young Man Offered Holder's Ballot

    Registration is separate from voting itself. We are discussing the US situation, I really fail to see how the Canadian standard has relevance here when it's not going to implemented in the US.
    Actually registration and voting go hand in hand you cannot seperate the two. If you have lax standards of registration and lax standards on voter identification you are inviting a problem. if you have stong voter registration standards you can probably weaken the voter identification standards without too much difficulty. vice versa isn't quite as good but still better than lax all around. As to it not going to be implemented in the USA, ATM no, it wont. But that doesn't mean ppl can't call/email or whatever their representatives voicing a third option. This does have an efect if enough ppl push for it. I am not saying you americans are morons for not using Canadian standards but to deny the possibility of another option that has no negative effects seems silly. When any subject is discussed all options should be considered.

    You are right how your system works is not up to me, that is up to you and your fellow 300 million or so fellow americans. Would you refuse to even consider an idea that came from someone outside your country? If so why?
    You, unlike certain others on this thread seem reasonable. I understand your points and I agree a photo ID for voting in the USA would have more negative than positive effects. But does my not being an american mean I cannot possibly have anything productive to say?
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    Re: O'Keefe Voter Fraud Investigation: Young Man Offered Holder's Ballot

    Quote Originally Posted by nonpareil View Post
    So if it's a few cents, how much money and time are you willing to spend trying stop that few cents from being lost?
    the scientific approach is to figure out how much is being stolen before writing it off as trivial. you say a few cents, but you don't know that.


    Let's use your idiocy in the money itself. We don't know how much is being stolen via counterfeiting. It's a waste of money putting all those protections into the bills we print just to save a few cents.

    that obviously sounds pretty stupid, because it is.

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    Re: O'Keefe Voter Fraud Investigation: Young Man Offered Holder's Ballot

    Quote Originally Posted by Quag View Post
    Actually registration and voting go hand in hand you cannot seperate the two. If you have lax standards of registration and lax standards on voter identification you are inviting a problem. if you have stong voter registration standards you can probably weaken the voter identification standards without too much difficulty. vice versa isn't quite as good but still better than lax all around. As to it not going to be implemented in the USA, ATM no, it wont. But that doesn't mean ppl can't call/email or whatever their representatives voicing a third option. This does have an efect if enough ppl push for it. I am not saying you americans are morons for not using Canadian standards but to deny the possibility of another option that has no negative effects seems silly. When any subject is discussed all options should be considered.
    That they go hand in hand doesn't change the fact that they are separate. It's a two step process. You're right that strengthening the registration process would lessen fraud, the kind which we have documented too, but the photo ID requirement doesn't address that. Some States also require evidence of citizenship for registration, and that also has its own problems.


    You are right how your system works is not up to me, that is up to you and your fellow 300 million or so fellow americans. Would you refuse to even consider an idea that came from someone outside your country? If so why?
    You, unlike certain others on this thread seem reasonable. I understand your points and I agree a photo ID for voting in the USA would have more negative than positive effects. But does my not being an american mean I cannot possibly have anything productive to say?
    It's not about "refusing to even consider an idea", it's about the fact that the legislation that are being proposed by the States requiring IDs isn't that. Since it's not being proposed, discussing it is kind of pointless, isn't it? It's not like by discussing it here, we can make it appear in the legislation.
    Quote Originally Posted by Free_Radical View Post

    And I wasn't making an appeal to authority, I was making an appeal to the philosophical body of work of the founders, the worth and content of which should be well-known to anyone with a cursory understanding of basic history and philosophy.

    Brian

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    Re: O'Keefe Voter Fraud Investigation: Young Man Offered Holder's Ballot

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    the scientific approach is to figure out how much is being stolen before writing it off as trivial. you say a few cents, but you don't know that.
    At least one party attempted to estimate that and it appears to be small. If no one knows anything, it's the opposite of scientific to assume that it's a big problem without evidence. Furthermore, the photo ID requirement will not allow anyone to figure out "how much is being stolen" << that's part of the idiocy of the arguement as I have explained.



    Let's use your idiocy in the money itself. We don't know how much is being stolen via counterfeiting. It's a waste of money putting all those protections into the bills we print just to save a few cents.

    that obviously sounds pretty stupid, because it is.
    We know it's a lot for a start, it's up to hundreds of millions of dollars (for example 2007-2008 $103m were removed). Right away your analogy fails. So it's not me being stupid here. If it's a problem so small, and the costs of fixing it is so much higher, then it would idiotic to spend all that money fixing something that costs so much less than the solution. The second thing that fails is that the solution does not address the problem. The frauds that's been documented would not be solved by the photo ID requirement.
    Quote Originally Posted by Free_Radical View Post

    And I wasn't making an appeal to authority, I was making an appeal to the philosophical body of work of the founders, the worth and content of which should be well-known to anyone with a cursory understanding of basic history and philosophy.

    Brian

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    Re: O'Keefe Voter Fraud Investigation: Young Man Offered Holder's Ballot

    Quote Originally Posted by nonpareil View Post
    At least one party attempted to estimate that and it appears to be small. If no one knows anything, it's the opposite of scientific to assume that it's a big problem without evidence. Furthermore, the photo ID requirement will not allow anyone to figure out "how much is being stolen" << that's part of the idiocy of the arguement as I have explained.
    one party tried to minimize the problem by pretending it isn't a problem.

    disenfranchisement already exists, and will always exist but your solution to do nothing to improve the process is idiotic.

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    Re: O'Keefe Voter Fraud Investigation: Young Man Offered Holder's Ballot

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    one party tried to minimize the problem by pretending it isn't a problem.

    disenfranchisement already exists, and will always exist but your solution to do nothing to improve the process is idiotic.
    It would seem all Americans would want ID when voting if only to recognize how important each vote is, the historical struggles which went into achieving the right to vote, and to protect the integrity of a system so few in this world get to enjoy.

    That people would put party politics ahead of a secure electoral system strongly suggests that the system is already in jeopardy.

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