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Solar company bankrupt despite 'win-win' DOE loan

Arbo

Arbo

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Solar company bankrupt despite 'win-win' DOE loan | Campaign 2012 | Washington Examiner

In keeping with the recent trend of so-called green companies going into the red, another solar energy company supported by President Obama's top administration officials declared bankruptcy today.Solar Trust for America received $2.1 billion in conditional loan guarantees from the Department of Energy -- "the largest amount ever offered to a solar project,"according to Energy Secretary Steven Chu -- for a project near Blythe, Calif., butdeclared bankruptcy within a year. It is unclear how much of the guarantee, if any, was actually awarded.
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Your tax dollars wasted, again.
 
Arbo said:
Solar company bankrupt despite 'win-win' DOE loan | Campaign 2012 | Washington Examiner

Your tax dollars wasted, again.
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I still don't understand why the government would support start-upcompanies to do this research. I wonder if we did that during the space race. It would seem to me that supporting good, strong companies who have extensive programs in place would be a wiser use of tax dollars.

The private sector has venture capitalists who are eager to support these new companies -- if they're sound. The free market works much better at sponsoring new technology than the White House.
 
Solar companies are going Bankrupt all over the planet, with or without DOE loans.
Despite a fast growing market.
The Chinese have targeted this industry as strategic an one they will win.
No one can compete with a phony low Yuan, now add in their govt doing whatever it takes to win.. and destroy everyone else.
For a decade+ our govt has let the Chinese get away with this and a boatload else.
They have waged and are winning, Economic War.
But lets blame the 'socialist' Obama.


First Solar (FSLR) Stock Suffers from Spate of Industry Bankruptcies
StreetInsider.com - First Solar (FSLR) Stock Suffers from Spate of Industry Bankruptcies
April 3, 2012
Shares of First Solar, Inc. (Nasdaq: FSLR) are under heavy pressure Tuesday as investors attempt to price in the risk related to mounting bankruptcies in the sector.

On Monday, Q-Cell, once the largest solar company in the world, filled for bankruptcy protection in Germany saying it can no longer continue as a gong concern.

In addition to the Q-Cell news, also on Monday Solar Trust of America filed Chapter 11 after it was unable to meet a deadline for an Energy Department loan guarantee last year.

The solar bankruptcy news has further rocked the sector, which has been reeling from drastic price drops and lower subsidies, especially in Germany.

After dropping 2% on Monday, shares of First Solar are down another 7.6% today.
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MaggieD said:
I still don't understand why the government would support start-upcompanies to do this research. I wonder if we did that during the space race. It would seem to me that supporting good, strong companies who have extensive programs in place would be a wiser use of tax dollars.

The private sector has venture capitalists who are eager to support these new companies -- if they're sound. The free market works much better at sponsoring new technology than the White House.
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No it doesn't. Private investment into startups still fail all the freaking time.
 
I think it's important to remember that Solar Millennium/Solar Trust of America gave up the DoE loan. No taxpayer money was lost.

Why A Solar Developer Turned Down $2.1 Billion From The Government

In April, the Obama administration offered German developer Solar Millennium’s U.S. joint venture a $2.1 billion loan guarantee to build a massive solar thermal power plant in the California desert. On Thursday, the company effectively gave the money back.
[...]
In a sign of how the economics of solar power are changing, Solar Millennium indicated it would be easier and more profitable to obtain commercial financing for the photovoltaic portion of the Blythe project rather than try to attract equity investors for a solar thermal project underwritten by the federal government.
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Why A Solar Developer Turned Down $2.1 Billion From The Government - Forbes
 
Deuce said:
No it doesn't. Private investment into startups still fail all the freaking time.
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And in the event that happens, is it tax payer money that is lost to the 'friends' or 'buddies' of the politician that gave the handout?
 
Arbo said:
And in the event that happens, is it tax payer money that is lost to the 'friends' or 'buddies' of the politician that gave the handout?
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Can't be worse than the alternative. As it stands now, we're paying oil money to politician's 'buddies' in Saudi Arabia, who in turn give that American money to terrorists like al-Queda. They in turn attack American interests across the globe. This forces American military action which costs even more American money. I'd call all that significantly worse than a 'loss.'
 
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MaggieD said:
I still don't understand why the government would support start-upcompanies to do this research. I wonder if we did that during the space race. It would seem to me that supporting good, strong companies who have extensive programs in place would be a wiser use of tax dollars.

The private sector has venture capitalists who are eager to support these new companies -- if they're sound. The free market works much better at sponsoring new technology than the White House.
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It is right and important that the government support business and projects that are of substantial national interest. To suggest that making our nation energy independent from the rest of the world is not within our national interests is ridiculous.

It is equally worth noting that what we are talking about here is not direct support as in venture capital but in loan guarantees to private entities providing that venture capital. How risky is the loan guarantee? Not very. Considering that when a company goes bankrupt all its assets are seized and sold off to repay all the lien holders (i.e. loans) off first. The government would only be responsible for paying that part back that was not covered by the sale of assets. Measure that risk against not providing any incentives for alternative energy and continuing to rely on foreign governments for energy needs and the choice is very clear.
 
This is like some serious old school mafia ****. OK...what you are going to do is give us a huge campaign donation. In return, we are going to give you a guaranteed loan, then you declare bankruptcy. Everyone wins.
 
poweRob said:
It amazes me to see people bitch about the pittance of government backed loans to solar when I never see them make a thread about how the government backed loans for far far far more to the nuclear power industry has a 50% risk of default...
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No one has even built one in 30 years. The data on that risk of default is 30 years old. How could anyone possibly consider that data valid?
 
EagleAye said:
No one has even built one in 30 years. The data on that risk of default is 30 years old. How could anyone possibly consider that data valid?
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Plant Vogtle expansion $42 million over budget, five months behind schedule, Georgia Power says
November 22, 2011

ATLANTA | Georgia Power executives say construction costs for the planned expansion of Plant Vogtle are $42 million over budget.

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution reports that company officials said delays in gaining federal approval to build the two reactors may push back the construction schedule roughly five months.

Company executive Pete Ivey said the rise in construction costs is partly related to a change in what labor may cost. Ivey is vice president of nuclear development support for Georgia Power's sister company, Southern Nuclear.

Georgia Power officials said the increased costs don't impact the total cost of the project and will not appear on customer bills. The estimated cost of the project is $14 billion.​
 
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I don't mind loan guarantees ( it's better than subsidies anyways) for some of this stuff.... nuclear especially.

....but not loans guarantees for something that is cheaper to import from Chinese... that just stupid.
 
poweRob said:
Plant Vogtle expansion $42 million over budget, five months behind schedule, Georgia Power says
November 22, 2011

ATLANTA | Georgia Power executives say construction costs for the planned expansion of Plant Vogtle are $42 million over budget.

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution reports that company officials said delays in gaining federal approval to build the two reactors may push back the construction schedule roughly five months.

Company executive Pete Ivey said the rise in construction costs is partly related to a change in what labor may cost. Ivey is vice president of nuclear development support for Georgia Power's sister company, Southern Nuclear.

Georgia Power officials said the increased costs don't impact the total cost of the project and will not appear on customer bills. The estimated cost of the project is $14 billion.​
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Well, this cost overrun looks like a drop in the bucket so far. Of course there's always a risk of default in any massive project, but I still hope it works. To get off foreign oil we'll need lots of solutions operating in tandem. It will include nuclear, wind, solar, geo-thermal, and wave solutions. Another important factor will be the introduction of Electric Vehicles (EV). They will seriously cut back on our need for oil from unstable regions and hostile nations. But at the same time, these will cause a significant increase in electricity demand. So that means we're seriously going to need new nuclear plants to support the increased load. So I'm crossing my fingers and hoping this new plant is successful. If it does, it will open the doors for even more nuclear plants. And that will be a good thing for America. With a little more support for alternative energies, even wind and solar should find it easier to get started.
 
EagleAye said:
Well, this cost overrun looks like a drop in the bucket so far. Of course there's always a risk of default in any massive project, but I still hope it works. To get off foreign oil we'll need lots of solutions operating in tandem. It will include nuclear, wind, solar, geo-thermal, and wave solutions. Another important factor will be the introduction of Electric Vehicles (EV). They will seriously cut back on our need for oil from unstable regions and hostile nations. But at the same time, these will cause a significant increase in electricity demand. So that means we're seriously going to need new nuclear plants to support the increased load. So I'm crossing my fingers and hoping this new plant is successful. If it does, it will open the doors for even more nuclear plants. And that will be a good thing for America. With a little more support for alternative energies, even wind and solar should find it easier to get started.
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I think that nukes are pointless and not needed. We don't really have much of an electrical energy crunch as is and of what we already make, more than 50% is lost in transmission and through the ground in your house. Spend the money shielding the lines for more efficient transmission and save a bundle.
 
poweRob said:
I think that nukes are pointless and not needed. We don't really have much of an electrical energy crunch as is and of what we already make, more than 50% is lost in transmission and through the ground in your house. Spend the money shielding the lines for more efficient transmission and save a bundle.
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I've read about 7% transmission loss, but never 50%. Got a link for that?

We don't currently have an electricity problem, but if EVs become popular, that will change in a big way. With gas prices climbing out of control, I would say it is a certainty. My personal guess is that we'll see an EV boom within 5 - 10 years. When that happens, we WILL see an electricity problem. Knowing that building a nuclear plant takes 4 years if all goes well, it would be a good idea to start building now. I don't want to take away from solar plants. We'll need those too, especially since they can be brought on line faster than nuclear. But until better storage systems can be produced, solar will have to be a support system to augment other systems, like nuclear and NG.
 
MaggieD said:
I still don't understand why the government would support start-upcompanies to do this research. I wonder if we did that during the space race. It would seem to me that supporting good, strong companies who have extensive programs in place would be a wiser use of tax dollars.

The private sector has venture capitalists who are eager to support these new companies -- if they're sound. The free market works much better at sponsoring new technology than the White House.
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Not quite. VCs generally don't invest in firms that don't have abnormally high potential rates of return. Utility companies tend to have mundane, but predictable ROI.That's really not the type of companies VCs go for. Furthermore, VCs, unlike many people here, know that the US for the most part isn't playing giving US companies a fair playing field. We don't give them cut rate loans. We don't exempt them from pollution standards. We don't give them cut rate utility prices. It's hard to compete with the rest of the world when the US government basically arms our solar firms with a wooden sword and sends them into an arena against opponents armed with lightsabers. US solar is being outclassed because it simply does not have the kind of support that other foreign firms do.
 
mbig said:
Solar companies are going Bankrupt all over the planet, with or without DOE loans.
Despite a fast growing market.
The Chinese have targeted this industry as strategic an one they will win.
No one can compete with a phony low Yuan, now add in their govt doing whatever it takes to win.. and destroy everyone else.
For a decade+ our govt has let the Chinese get away with this and a boatload else.
They have waged and are winning, Economic War.
But lets blame the 'socialist' Obama.


First Solar (FSLR) Stock Suffers from Spate of Industry Bankruptcies
StreetInsider.com - First Solar (FSLR) Stock Suffers from Spate of Industry Bankruptcies
April 3, 2012
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Why don't you stop defending that idiot? He should have known that before putting our tax dollars in it.
 
American said:
Why don't you stop defending that idiot? He should have known that before putting our tax dollars in it.
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The only idiotic thing to do is fail to fight back. WE should be the one's exporting the latest and greatest energy technology, not China. Only an idiot would fail to support an industry with so many lucrative contracts around the world. China isn't killing a chance at huge money just to deface one of their political figures. Their going balls out to WIN economically, and that's what we should be doing, not pissing in our own sandbox.
 
EagleAye said:
The only idiotic thing to do is fail to fight back. WE should be the one's exporting the latest and greatest energy technology, not China. Only an idiot would fail to support an industry with so many lucrative contracts around the world. China isn't killing a chance at huge money just to deface one of their political figures. Their going balls out to WIN economically, and that's what we should be doing, not pissing in our own sandbox.
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If those business were as wonderful as you say, they wouldn't be going bankrupt.
 
Thrilla said:
I don't mind loan guarantees ( it's better than subsidies anyways) for some of this stuff.... nuclear especially.

....but not loans guarantees for something that is cheaper to import from Chinese... that just stupid.
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LOL. There's notihng that is not cheaper to import from China if the Chinese want it that way.
 
American said:
If those business were as wonderful as you say, they wouldn't be going bankrupt.
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Businesses fail all the time. Only solar gets media attention when it happens. What nobody is reporting is how many succeed. Only a small fraction of the total solar companies are failing.
 
Thrilla said:
I don't mind loan guarantees ( it's better than subsidies anyways) for some of this stuff.... nuclear especially.

....but not loans guarantees for something that is cheaper to import from Chinese... that just stupid.
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Ahhh....so lets just out source everything to foreign countries that make things cheaper. The whole point behind this effort is to make the U.S. energy INDEPENDENT. This would just supplant our reliance on foreign oil to our reliance on Chinese solar technology. If befuddles me to now end the cognitive dissonance of the conservative movement. Conservatives know that no matter how much oil we drill we cannot become energy independent but they keep pretending we can. Then when the government takes the active steps needed to ensure our energy independence by providing incentives for alternative energy they cry foul. Making the nation energy independent if vital to our national security. We cannot have a nation unless we learn to be self-sufficient. In order to do that we need to develope internal means of providing alternative energy other than oil. In order to provide that alternative energy the government must provide incentives in order to develop that alternative. To do anything less would be forever chain us to endless wars to secure needed energy or foreign influence and domination to secure our energy. Either scenario is and should be unacceptable.
 
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