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Solar company bankrupt despite 'win-win' DOE loan

If you read what was written you'll see that they were not against renewable energy but "extending industry-supporting incentives".

The Solyndra scam might have had something to do with that.

I just KNEW you would say something like this.

If you'll read closely, by voting "nay" they voted to "extend industry-supporting incentives," for the oil industry. Voting "yea" would have halted $24 Billion in subsidies and incentives for the oil industry.

And exactly how do you explain why voting against the wind industry constitutes support for the wind industry?
 
I listened to the tape and nowhere did he say he was against renewable energy.

In fact, as I said, I have never heard anyone ever say they were against renewable energy,

And it seems you've never heard anyone make that claim either.

PC Judo makes me nauseous.
 
I just KNEW you would say something like this.

Well of course. It's obvious.

If you'll read closely, by voting "nay" they voted to "extend industry-supporting incentives," for the oil industry. Voting "yea" would have halted $24 Billion in subsidies and incentives for the oil industry.

And exactly how do you explain why voting against the wind industry constitutes support for the wind industry?

I needn't explain anything. I said that I knew of no one who was against renewable energy and a claim was made to the contrary. So far I have not seen or heard of anyone who was or is against renewable energy.
 
And exactly how do you explain why voting against the wind industry constitutes support for the wind industry?

I would guess that Kerry could probably answer such a question for us.
 
Well of course. It's obvious.



I needn't explain anything. I said that I knew of no one who was against renewable energy and a claim was made to the contrary. So far I have not seen or heard of anyone who was or is against renewable energy.

and you won't, due to selective hearing loss.
 
I needn't explain anything. I said that I knew of no one who was against renewable energy and a claim was made to the contrary. So far I have not seen or heard of anyone who was or is against renewable energy.

So how does that work, actually? Do they have to use the exact phrase, "against renewable energy" before it counts as proof? So they can actively vote against renewables or even claim they don't exist at all, and for you that counts as support for renewables? I'll be you're one of those who'd let a murderer off because it isn't his fault he shot somebody to death, it's the gun's fault, right?

I'll wait for your reply while you call the BP marketing department for instructions.
 
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and you won't, due to selective hearing loss.

Well then how about quoting someone who is against renewable energy and post it here?

Do you understand the difference between throwing public money at iffy propositions and being against renewable energy?
 
Well then how about quoting someone who is against renewable energy and post it here?

Do you understand the difference between throwing public money at iffy propositions and being against renewable energy?

The greenies have a different definition of "renewable", and it's always really expensive.
 
So how does that work, actually? Do they have to use the exact phrase, "against renewable energy" before it counts as proof?

That would be the best case scenario, wouldn't it?

But of course there is no one we know of who is against renewable energy.

No one.
 
Well then how about quoting someone who is against renewable energy and post it here?

Do you understand the difference between throwing public money at iffy propositions and being against renewable energy?

Garsh, no, I have no idea. Say, Barney, do you know?

No, me neither. Don't none of us know about that there iffy proposition. What do you think, Cletus?

hor, hor! All I know is drill, baby, drill! That there's the only way to bring back 'merican jobs and $2 a gallon gas.
 
The greenies have a different definition of "renewable", and it's always really expensive.

Perhaps the claim should have been "there are people who are against renewable energy if it is too expensive, inefficient and related to crony capitalism". Then there might have been some agreement.
 
Perhaps the claim should have been "there are people who are against renewable energy if it is too expensive, inefficient and related to crony capitalism". Then there might have been some agreement.

The greenies are also ruled by group identity politics. If a righty is for it, then naturally they are against it, or they will find a way to be against it, even if they thought they were originally for it.

vice versa.
 
Perhaps the claim should have been "there are people who are against renewable energy if it is too expensive, inefficient and related to crony capitalism". Then there might have been some agreement.

Right. I'll bet it will just so happen that every single form of renewable energy is, "too expensive, inefficient and related to crony capitalism," correct?
 
I wouldn't take that bet.

Then I'll also bet you cannot name a single kind of renewable energy or renewable energy project that you currently support. I'll be waiting a very long time for a reply with any substance on this.
 
Then I'll also bet you cannot name a single kind of renewable energy or renewable energy project that you currently support. I'll be waiting a very long time for a reply with any substance on this.

I support all renewable energy investigations and might invest in those I thought to be headed by reliable and experienced people and had the chance of a profitable return. But I would only invest my money in any such venture, not yours or anyone elses, unless I were asked. I do not want inexperienced people throwing my money at their political friends with the claimed hope that something good might come of it.
 
Then I'll also bet you cannot name a single kind of renewable energy or renewable energy project that you currently support. I'll be waiting a very long time for a reply with any substance on this.


I think a lot of people would support funding the basic research that will solve this problem. That has been a key role of the federal government for decades and has had many successes.
 
I support all renewable energy investigations and might invest in those I thought to be headed by reliable and experienced people and had the chance of a profitable return. But I would only invest my money in any such venture, not yours or anyone elses, unless I were asked. I do not want inexperienced people throwing my money at their political friends with the claimed hope that something good might come of it.

A post of "If onlys." Exactly as I predicted there is no substance to this post. So should I conclude now, that you support renewables, just NO RENEWABLES in existence, right?
 
I think a lot of people would support funding the basic research that will solve this problem. That has been a key role of the federal government for decades and has had many successes.

I think so too. Trouble is, people who are against renewables are insisting upon continued research only as a means of burying renewables altogether. They know as well as anyone that ANY new technology cannot compete cost-wise with a firmly entrenched, highly manufactured existing technology. The best way to drive the cost down is to actually take action and build the new tech. As larger manufacturing production runs are produced, the cost will nosedive. Actual use will also produce better information about improving the product than any small think-tank could produce. Manufacturing and product improvements will drive the cost down further, which trigger even larger production runs, and still the cost drops.

This is common knowledge to anyone who's bothered to pay attention to the process. The game that anti-renewable forces are playing is hoping that people know more about how reality TV shows work, than they do about basic economics. If anti-renewable forces can trick folks into thinking more research and better leadership is needed before doing anything (and thereby halting any manufacturing), they can insure the only cost we ever see for renewables is the prototype cost which is orders of magnitude higher than the full-blown production cost. In turn they can show off this deceptively high prototype cost, and claim more research is needed, because the new tech isn't cost competetive enough. Push it back into research and the next prototype will also be too expensive, and so on, and so on. It's a nice feedback loop that guarantees renewables will NEVER be used. This is their entire goal. The best part is they can claim they're supporting renewables with this dog and pony show, when they're actually completely against it. The game of anti-renewable pundits is ridiculously transparent when viewed with common sense.
 
I think so too. Trouble is, people who are against renewables are insisting upon continued research only as a means of burying renewables altogether. They know as well as anyone that ANY new technology cannot compete cost-wise with a firmly entrenched, highly manufactured existing technology. The best way to drive the cost down is to actually take action and build the new tech. As larger manufacturing production runs are produced, the cost will nosedive. Actual use will also produce better information about improving the product than any small think-tank could produce. Manufacturing and product improvements will drive the cost down further, which trigger even larger production runs, and still the cost drops.

This is common knowledge to anyone who's bothered to pay attention to the process. The game that anti-renewable forces are playing is hoping that people know more about how reality TV shows work, than they do about basic economics. If anti-renewable forces can trick folks into thinking more research and better leadership is needed before doing anything (and thereby halting any manufacturing), they can insure the only cost we ever see for renewables is the prototype cost which is orders of magnitude higher than the full-blown production cost. In turn they can show off this deceptively high prototype cost, and claim more research is needed, because the new tech isn't cost competetive enough. Push it back into research and the next prototype will also be too expensive, and so on, and so on. It's a nice feedback loop that guarantees renewables will NEVER be used. This is their entire goal. The best part is they can claim they're supporting renewables with this dog and pony show, when they're actually completely against it. The game of anti-renewable pundits is ridiculously transparent when viewed with common sense.

While the above is probably true of some it is unfair to put everyone who thinks the way this administration handled the matter was a mess is unfair.

Lets take the specific example of solar energy the one both sides want to hang their hat on. There is currently massive OVERCAPACITY in the industry of building solar panels. So do you think it makes sense to invest in more capacity or let others waste their money and invest when one of two things happen, Either supply and demand come in balance and more capacity is needed or there is a breakthrough technology that will leapfrog whatever is out there.

I know that most of the folks on this site would like things to be all back and white, good or evil but the world is largely grey. That is why we did so well in past when we were able to compromise and meet in the middle.
 
Trouble is, people who are against renewables are insisting upon continued research only as a means of burying renewables altogether.

You keep on with this fallacy. The normal "if you do not support government doing it, you are against it". Which is the bases for all the "you hate poor people!", "you hate women!", "you hate black people!" and the hundreds of other similar things.
 
You keep on with this fallacy. The normal "if you do not support government doing it, you are against it". Which is the bases for all the "you hate poor people!", "you hate women!", "you hate black people!" and the hundreds of other similar things.

Exactly.

And in this case if you don't give a billion dollars to companies like Solyndra you're anti renewable energy.They don't see any distinction.
 
Exactly as you predicted? Where?

I asked for a single renewable type or renewable project (that you support) here:
Then I'll also bet you cannot name a single kind of renewable energy or renewable energy project that you currently support. I'll be waiting a very long time for a reply with any substance on this.

You failed to list a single renewable type or renewable project in your response below - "exactly as I predicted" in the bold above:

I support all renewable energy investigations and might invest in those I thought to be headed by reliable and experienced people and had the chance of a profitable return. But I would only invest my money in any such venture, not yours or anyone elses, unless I were asked. I do not want inexperienced people throwing my money at their political friends with the claimed hope that something good might come of it.
 
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