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Thread: Solar company bankrupt despite 'win-win' DOE loan

  1. #41
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    Re: Solar company bankrupt despite 'win-win' DOE loan

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbo View Post
    First, the industry does not have to support any enemies. We can get it from, um, HERE.

    Second, what I meant by does not hold a candle is cost vs power output. And again, good luck fighting the environmentalist when trying to put in a wind farm or a massive solar array. How much farm land would have to be removed from crop production in order to have enough 'AE' equipment to power the nation without oil and coal?
    Putting solar panels on the roofs of buildings takes not one acre of farm land. Putting arrays in desert areas where there isn't enough water to grow crops doesn't either. Solar energy is about the only form of energy that doesn't degrade the environment in one way or another. Why would environmentalists fight that?
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    Re: Solar company bankrupt despite 'win-win' DOE loan

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Putting solar panels on the roofs of buildings takes not one acre of farm land. Putting arrays in desert areas where there isn't enough water to grow crops doesn't either. Solar energy is about the only form of energy that doesn't degrade the environment in one way or another. Why would environmentalists fight that?
    Desert area's where some little critter lives? Where big arrays would disrupt their habitat?

    Three national environmental groups sued the federal government Monday in a second bid to stop construction of a giant solar power plant in the California desert that they say would harm the imperiled desert tortoise, the golden eagle and other protected wildlife.

    The litigation is the latest twist in a seven-year saga over the 663.5-megawatt Calico solar station to be built on 7.2-square miles of government-owned land in the Mojave Desert in San Bernardino County. So far the multibillion-dollar project has changed hands three times, switched technologies and won and lost a contract to sell electricity to utility Southern California Edison.
    Sierra Club, NRDC Sue Feds To Stop Big California Solar Power Project - Forbes
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    Re: Solar company bankrupt despite 'win-win' DOE loan

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbo View Post
    Desert area's where some little critter lives? Where big arrays would disrupt their habitat?



    Sierra Club, NRDC Sue Feds To Stop Big California Solar Power Project - Forbes
    It seems fighting the environmentalists would be necessary, even to build solar.
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    Re: Solar company bankrupt despite 'win-win' DOE loan

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    It seems fighting the environmentalists would be necessary, even to build solar.
    The more I watch them, the more I am convinced their desired solution is the removal of humans from the earth. Then the earth would be 'safe'.

    They must of had the flu and missed the day in school when they discussed survival of the fittest.
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    Re: Solar company bankrupt despite 'win-win' DOE loan

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    I still don't understand why the government would support start-upcompanies to do this research. I wonder if we did that during the space race.
    No. "We" expanded government to do that. It's called "NASA". Would you support expanding government in order to research alternative methods of fuel?
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    Re: Solar company bankrupt despite 'win-win' DOE loan

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy the Kid View Post
    Investments ? Google Green

    I found this site which shows google's investments and what the return will be.


    "Clean Power Finance: Financing for rooftop solar

    We invested $75 million to create a fund with Clean Power Finance (CPF) that will help up to 3,000 homeowners go solar. Purchasing a solar system is a major home improvement, but the upfront cost has historically been one of the biggest barriers for homeowners. Solar installers across the country don’t always have the resources to find financing for customers, or provide it themselves. And investors like Google, banks, and others, can find it difficult to enter a fragmented solar market and get connected to individual homeowners. Clean Power Finance's open platform connects installers with investors to provide financing to homeowners. It's an innovative and scalable model that makes business sense, and has the potential to lower costs and accelerate adoption of solar energy."


    "SolarCity: Solar for thousands of residential rooftops

    In the largest deal of its kind to date, we invested $280 million in a SolarCity fund to help provide innovative financing for residential solar projects to make clean energy more widely accessible. With Google’s backing, SolarCity, a full service solar systems provider, can offer up to 8,000 additional customers the option to go solar through a solar lease or power purchase agreements."


    Both of these sound like they are giving folks loans to go solar.
    Nice. Good find. I actually worked in a call center that was connecting people who wanted solar to connect with SolarCity.
    Last edited by EagleAye; 04-06-12 at 08:08 PM.
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    Re: Solar company bankrupt despite 'win-win' DOE loan

    I'm a simple person. Even the "experts" have differing opinions.

    Alternative Energy - ProCon.org

    Pro

    "Arjun Makhijani, PhD, President of the Institute for Energy and Environmental Research, stated the following in his Aug. 2007 article "Carbon-Free and Nuclear-Free," in Science for Democratic Action:



    “[A] zero-CO2 U.S. economy can be achieved within the next thirty to fifty years without the use of nuclear power...

    The U.S. renewable energy resource base is vast and practically untapped. Available wind energy resources in 12 Midwestern and Rocky Mountain states equal about 2.5 times the entire electricity production of the United States... Solar energy resources on just one percent of the area of the United States are about three times as large as wind energy, if production is focused in the high insolation areas [strong sunlight] in the Southwest and West…

    With the right combination of technologies, it is likely that even the use of coal can be phased out, along with nuclear electricity.

    Complete elimination of CO2 could occur as early as 2040. Elimination of nuclear power could also occur in that time frame.”

    Con

    Tad W. Patzek, PhD, Chairman of the Petroleum and Geosystems Engineering Department at the University of Texas at Austin, and David Pimentel, PhD, Professor Emeritus of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology at Cornell University stated the following in their Mar. 14, 2005 article “Thermodynamics of Energy Production from Biomass,” published in Critical Reviews in Plant Sciences:



    "We want to be very clear: solar cells, wind turbines, and biomass-for-energy plantations can never replace even a small fraction of the highly reliable, 24-hours-a-day, 365-days-a-year, nuclear, fossil, and hydroelectric power stations. Claims to the contrary are popular, but irresponsible...

    We live in a hydrocarbon-limited world, generate too much CO2, and major hydropower opportunities have been exhausted worldwide..."
    Last edited by Billy the Kid; 04-06-12 at 08:02 PM.

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    Re: Solar company bankrupt despite 'win-win' DOE loan

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbo View Post
    First, the industry does not have to support any enemies. We can get it from, um, HERE.

    Second, what I meant by does not hold a candle is cost vs power output. And again, good luck fighting the environmentalist when trying to put in a wind farm or a massive solar array. How much farm land would have to be removed from crop production in order to have enough 'AE' equipment to power the nation without oil and coal?
    We're, Um, currently getting 45% of our oil from foreign sources. And that's after "drill baby drill" that's brought us the highest domestic oil production of the decade, and after a government insistence on higher-mileage cars. We CANNOT fulfill our energy needs with strictly domestic production. Even if we tried we'd use up all of our "easy" oil far quicker, and without any kind of backup, we'd experience unprecedented price gouging and the US would have no other recourse but to pay it or kill everybody that controls it. Neither option is a good one for the leader of the free world.

    On the other hand, we are very good at producing our own electricity, and 99% of that is made without oil. It's true that you can get far more MJ/Kg energy out of oil but the vast majority of it is wasted (as much as 85%) so the argument that oil contains more energy is a true one, but an irrelevant one. And we really don't have to worry about losing farmland to put up AE. We simply use the thousands of hectares of potential farmland already destroyed by coal mining. Problem solved.
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    Re: Solar company bankrupt despite 'win-win' DOE loan

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbo View Post
    Desert area's where some little critter lives? Where big arrays would disrupt their habitat?

    Sierra Club, NRDC Sue Feds To Stop Big California Solar Power Project - Forbes
    Ask an environmentalist to pick between oil/coal and nuclear/solar/wind, and they will pick the latter 100% of the time.
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    Re: Solar company bankrupt despite 'win-win' DOE loan

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy the Kid View Post
    If solar is the "next big" thing, why aren't investors investing? I've read all the pros and cons here, but the question begs, where is the private money? Where are the money folks like Buffett, etc.? They're supposed to be the people who see the "future" and invest.
    Because, as you've already been told in this thread, that conservative "free market" that we are tied into with the WTO and NAFTA and all that garbage... for some reason means we abide by free market while China subsidizes the crap out of their products to illegally dump their subsidized products into our market to destroy competition all while they tariff our goods coming into their country.

    That is why.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    The sad fact is that having a pedophile win is better than having a Democrat in office. I'm all for a solution where a Republican gets in that isn't Moore.

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