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Thread: Solar company bankrupt despite 'win-win' DOE loan

  1. #171
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    Re: Solar company bankrupt despite 'win-win' DOE loan

    Quote Originally Posted by EagleAye View Post
    I think so too. Trouble is, people who are against renewables are insisting upon continued research only as a means of burying renewables altogether. They know as well as anyone that ANY new technology cannot compete cost-wise with a firmly entrenched, highly manufactured existing technology. The best way to drive the cost down is to actually take action and build the new tech. As larger manufacturing production runs are produced, the cost will nosedive. Actual use will also produce better information about improving the product than any small think-tank could produce. Manufacturing and product improvements will drive the cost down further, which trigger even larger production runs, and still the cost drops.

    This is common knowledge to anyone who's bothered to pay attention to the process. The game that anti-renewable forces are playing is hoping that people know more about how reality TV shows work, than they do about basic economics. If anti-renewable forces can trick folks into thinking more research and better leadership is needed before doing anything (and thereby halting any manufacturing), they can insure the only cost we ever see for renewables is the prototype cost which is orders of magnitude higher than the full-blown production cost. In turn they can show off this deceptively high prototype cost, and claim more research is needed, because the new tech isn't cost competetive enough. Push it back into research and the next prototype will also be too expensive, and so on, and so on. It's a nice feedback loop that guarantees renewables will NEVER be used. This is their entire goal. The best part is they can claim they're supporting renewables with this dog and pony show, when they're actually completely against it. The game of anti-renewable pundits is ridiculously transparent when viewed with common sense.
    While the above is probably true of some it is unfair to put everyone who thinks the way this administration handled the matter was a mess is unfair.

    Lets take the specific example of solar energy the one both sides want to hang their hat on. There is currently massive OVERCAPACITY in the industry of building solar panels. So do you think it makes sense to invest in more capacity or let others waste their money and invest when one of two things happen, Either supply and demand come in balance and more capacity is needed or there is a breakthrough technology that will leapfrog whatever is out there.

    I know that most of the folks on this site would like things to be all back and white, good or evil but the world is largely grey. That is why we did so well in past when we were able to compromise and meet in the middle.

  2. #172
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    Re: Solar company bankrupt despite 'win-win' DOE loan

    Quote Originally Posted by EagleAye View Post
    Trouble is, people who are against renewables are insisting upon continued research only as a means of burying renewables altogether.
    You keep on with this fallacy. The normal "if you do not support government doing it, you are against it". Which is the bases for all the "you hate poor people!", "you hate women!", "you hate black people!" and the hundreds of other similar things.
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    Re: Solar company bankrupt despite 'win-win' DOE loan

    Quote Originally Posted by EagleAye View Post
    A post of "If onlys." Exactly as I predicted there is no substance to this post. So should I conclude now, that you support renewables, just NO RENEWABLES in existence, right?
    Exactly as you predicted? Where?

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    Re: Solar company bankrupt despite 'win-win' DOE loan

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbo View Post
    You keep on with this fallacy. The normal "if you do not support government doing it, you are against it". Which is the bases for all the "you hate poor people!", "you hate women!", "you hate black people!" and the hundreds of other similar things.
    Exactly.

    And in this case if you don't give a billion dollars to companies like Solyndra you're anti renewable energy.They don't see any distinction.

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    Re: Solar company bankrupt despite 'win-win' DOE loan

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Exactly as you predicted? Where?
    I asked for a single renewable type or renewable project (that you support) here:
    Quote Originally Posted by EagleAye View Post
    Then I'll also bet you cannot name a single kind of renewable energy or renewable energy project that you currently support. I'll be waiting a very long time for a reply with any substance on this.
    You failed to list a single renewable type or renewable project in your response below - "exactly as I predicted" in the bold above:

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    I support all renewable energy investigations and might invest in those I thought to be headed by reliable and experienced people and had the chance of a profitable return. But I would only invest my money in any such venture, not yours or anyone elses, unless I were asked. I do not want inexperienced people throwing my money at their political friends with the claimed hope that something good might come of it.
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    Re: Solar company bankrupt despite 'win-win' DOE loan

    Quote Originally Posted by EagleAye View Post
    I asked for a single renewable type or renewable project (that you support) here:


    You failed to list a single renewable type or renewable project in your response below - "exactly as I predicted" in the bold above:
    You wanted me to name a specific company in which i would invest money?

    I don't see any right now though I did some investigating in the past, particular in batteries and natural gas.

    You want stock advice?

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    Re: Solar company bankrupt despite 'win-win' DOE loan

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    You wanted me to name a specific company in which i would invest money?

    I don't see any right now though I did some investigating in the past, particular in batteries and natural gas.
    That would be nice, or it could be a kind or type of renewable energy (e.g., Wind, Solar, Hydro-electric, Thermo-electric, Wave, Hydro-turbine, Tidal, diesel from trash). Natural gas is NOT a renewable. It's also a finite resource, therefore not a renewable resource. It's interesting that you mention batteries. That's a step forward. We need better batteries for use in EVs or for holding energy from intermittent power sources like Wind and Solar. As long as you would support public funding for battery tech for use in utilities or EVs, I would could count that as support for renewables since batteries are an important part of the renewable solution.

    My point is, you can't say that you support renewables when you fail to support every single renewable solution available. Make sense?
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    Re: Solar company bankrupt despite 'win-win' DOE loan

    Quote Originally Posted by EagleAye View Post
    As long as you would support public funding for battery tech for use in utilities or EVs, I would could count that as support for renewables

    Yet another example of what I mentioned above in post 172.

    How about them apples Grant? You are good, if you support 'public funding'... otherwise, you DO NOT SUPPORT RENEWABLES.

    542890_425772910785501_205344452828349_1529449_658987407_n.jpg
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    Re: Solar company bankrupt despite 'win-win' DOE loan

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbo View Post
    Yet another example of what I mentioned above in post 172.

    How about them apples Grant? You are good, if you support 'public funding'... otherwise, you DO NOT SUPPORT RENEWABLES.
    Grant asserts that he is "for" renewables and doesn't know anyone who is against. The very simple question I pose is: which renewable source do you support? So far, no answer (a specific renewable source) is received. Thus, his original assertion is negated. FAIL, in other words. Your little picture is apropos.

    May I assume form your comment that you are against "public funding" for industry? Can I then assume you are against the subsidies and tax breaks (by tax omission, the costs become public funding) for the oil industry?
    Last edited by EagleAye; 04-15-12 at 07:30 PM.
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    Re: Solar company bankrupt despite 'win-win' DOE loan

    I'm not going to play your little pedantic word game.

    I pointed out the fallacy of your logic. The same logic many use. If you do not support 'xxxxxx' then you are horrible and want the children to suffer. It's all quite silly and transparent. You verified it again when you said that if he supported 'public funding' of something then he was for that something, suggesting if he did not support public funding, he was against the whole thing.
    "nah i think the way cons want to turn this into a political issue is funny though" - Philly Boss

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