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Thread: Solar company bankrupt despite 'win-win' DOE loan

  1. #101
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    Re: Solar company bankrupt despite 'win-win' DOE loan

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Of course I didn't say that.
    Yes you did when you said, "Free enterprise put you there, not crony capitalism." That's you saying government investment is crony capitalism. I'm predicting you will try to play semantics to spin out of it but we both know where that came from.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    And only the government, with experienced people like Barack Obama, can determine that direction?
    If you don't like living in a representative democracy, there are plenty other choices you can make to live in.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    That's partly true. Partly.
    No. It is true.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Of course I didn't say that either, did I?
    Yes you did when you said, "Free enterprise put you there, not crony capitalism." That's you saying "free enterprise" meaning no government... ALL private industry did it. I'm predicting you will try to play semantics to spin out of it but we both know where that came from.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    All you're doing in substantiating the claim I made earlier about the US education system.
    And all you are doing is resorting to personal insults instead of honestly debating which only weakens your argument even further.
    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The Supreme Court can't interpret The Constitution. They don't have that power.

  2. #102
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    Re: Solar company bankrupt despite 'win-win' DOE loan

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Oh I'm sure there is... but in this case all that money won't benefit hardly anyone but he who owns the pipeline itself.
    So you understand there is money to be made by being the middle man but there won't be enough money this time? You feel that this oil will be sold to Asia at just a little bit above the break even point? Do you have the numbers to support this claim?
    Don't know what this has to do with anything.
    You said
    "Drill baby Drill" is short for, "Make my campaign donors richer."
    If you choose not to drill and not to have pipelines then it might keep everyone honest, if that is to be the criteria.

    Never said there isn't corruption. Like I said, I'm in NM and it is allllll around me here. Newspaper is generally front-paged with government or government/business corruption all the time.
    Yes, I know and in fact you said there was corruption. I noted that.
    Threw his future away for free car washes. They do the stupidest **** around here. Downtown Santa Fe... if you can find parking, you are paying for it. Recent scandal, over 50% of the money collected from the parking meters is stolen by the parking meter people.
    Do we need be reminded again that power corrupts? This is why governments should have as little power as possible. They can't even count the votes come election time and yet they feel they can hand out money to corporations and run a health care system. It's a mad world.

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    Re: Solar company bankrupt despite 'win-win' DOE loan

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Yes you did when you said, "Free enterprise put you there, not crony capitalism." That's you saying government investment is crony capitalism. I'm predicting you will try to play semantics to spin out of it but we both know where that came from.
    Yes, and government involvement with business will inevitable lead to crony capitalism. That's what's happening now in the US and there are many links which can establish that. In fact I sent one earlier.

    But you leapt to an erroneous conclusion about what I said and read more into it than what was said. Thats why its best to deal with direct quotes rather then your interpretation of them.

    If you don't like living in a representative democracy, there are plenty other choices you can make to live in.
    I have no idea where that came from.

    And all you are doing is resorting to personal insults instead of honestly debating which only weakens your argument even further.
    I was inspired by your
    "Bull


    Crap


    You have bought a load of horse manure and you clearly aren't a good farmer... so to speak".

    Is that your idea of honest debate?

  4. #104
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    Re: Solar company bankrupt despite 'win-win' DOE loan

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Do we need be reminded again that power corrupts? This is why governments should have as little power as possible. They can't even count the votes come election time and yet they feel they can hand out money to corporations and run a health care system. It's a mad world.
    Money = power

    And yes, power corrupts. So as down as you are on government, they aren't the only thing that is corrupt. Government officials are more often than not corrupted by the invasive tactics of private sector $'s buying them off or throwing kick-backs.

    This is where conservatives will use this as an angle to say that that is why we need less government... as if more industry and less government in this scenario will somehow eliminate graft and kickback schemes. Those happen without government too.
    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The Supreme Court can't interpret The Constitution. They don't have that power.

  5. #105
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    Re: Solar company bankrupt despite 'win-win' DOE loan

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Yes, and government involvement with business will inevitable lead to crony capitalism.
    Inevitably? Really? There is never any honest dealing ever because if government is involved that it all inevitably leads to crony capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    I have no idea where that came from.
    It came from you saying you didn't like that our representative government officials get to choose what direction is best for your country.


    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    I was inspired by your
    "Bull


    Crap


    You have bought a load of horse manure and you clearly aren't a good farmer... so to speak".

    Is that your idea of honest debate?
    It was hardly saying you were stupid due to being under-educated from a failing US educational system now wasn't it? But if you want to fabricate a victim card as an excuse for your ad hom be my guest because it ruins your argument.
    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The Supreme Court can't interpret The Constitution. They don't have that power.

  6. #106
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    Re: Solar company bankrupt despite 'win-win' DOE loan

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Money = power

    And yes, power corrupts. So as down as you are on government, they aren't the only thing that is corrupt.
    No, they are not, nor did I make that claim.

    Government officials are more often than not corrupted by the invasive tactics of private sector $'s buying them off or throwing kick-backs.
    Quite possibly. That's often called "crony capitalism", such as we see in the Obama administration.
    This is where conservatives will use this as an angle to say that that is why we need less government..
    .

    Yes, because we both see how often money and power corrupts. Therefore the less power government has the less likelihood there is of corruption. The more government there is the more likely, as a result of this added power, the greater the opportunity for corruption.

    as if more industry and less government in this scenario will somehow eliminate graft and kickback schemes.
    Who made that claim? I know I certainly didn't.
    Those happen without government too.
    Yes, and I'll not argue otherwise.
    Last edited by Grant; 04-08-12 at 01:40 AM.

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    Re: Solar company bankrupt despite 'win-win' DOE loan

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Inevitably? Really? There is never any honest dealing ever because if government is involved that it all inevitably leads to crony capitalism?
    You must have seen where I gave you the example, right?

    It came from you saying you didn't like that our representative government officials get to choose what direction is best for your country.
    That's right. I want the electorate to decide what is best for the country.

    It was hardly saying you were stupid due to being under-educated from a failing US educational system now wasn't it? But if you want to fabricate a victim card as an excuse for your ad hom be my guest because it ruins your argument.
    The educational standards have dropped. There seems little doubt bout that.

  8. #108
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    Re: Solar company bankrupt despite 'win-win' DOE loan

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    That's right. I want the electorate to decide what is best for the country.
    Interesting, so if the electorate decides it's best for the country for all to buy a Chevy volt, that's OK by you.
    Liberals - Punish the Successful, Reward the Unsuccessful
    Liberals - Tax, Borrow, Spend, and Give Free Stuff
    Obama's legacy - Total Failure

  9. #109
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    Re: Solar company bankrupt despite 'win-win' DOE loan

    Quote Originally Posted by Born Free View Post
    Interesting, so if the electorate decides it's best for the country for all to buy a Chevy volt, that's OK by you.
    Yes, that's fine with me. And judging from reports that's what many Americans want.

    They like the idea of a President with no business experience whatsoever buying and selling car companies and determining which cars they should buy by effecting the marketplace with incentives, while not offering the same opportunities to their competitors.

    This is largely why I question the American education system. Not all that law ago the American people would have laughed at the idea of their president buying large corporations, firing the staff, taking it over and then selling cars at subsidies back to the public (who largely dont want them) and still losing money in the process. Now many seem fine with it.

    Do you have another explanation for this phenomenon?

  10. #110
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    Re: Solar company bankrupt despite 'win-win' DOE loan

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    You can run the water through a black water hose, specific to the size of the pool, for far less and with as much efficiency.
    and run your air conditioner and pool filter on it, how?
    Can't we just turn Congress off and then turn it back on again?



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