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Thread: Solar company bankrupt despite 'win-win' DOE loan

  1. #91
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    Re: Solar company bankrupt despite 'win-win' DOE loan

    Quote Originally Posted by EagleAye View Post
    Try to remember that China has the #2 economy in the world. They desperately want to be #1, and they will NOT fight fair to get there. Now while you may think the best thing to do is passively spread your legs and let them rape us, and pretend to like it, I completely disagree. If the Chinese become the #1 economy because we became economic pacifists, you can be sure we'll end up paying for our oil in Chinese Yuan, not dollars. I guarantee you will not be able to pretend liking that.
    So you feel that the United States can be the number one economy in the world by having Barack Obama give public money to a variety of companies? Why would you arrive at that conclusion? Do you feel that he and the people around him have the business experience and acumen to get the job done? Of course not. They are Chicago hucksters.

    The US is more in debt than they can ever repay. You wanted to be number one? You can forget that. In ten years Americans will be lucky to be in the top 20.
    Anybody knows that in business the guy who opens a market first is damned difficult to remove once they're already there. Even a superior competing product has a hard time breaking into the same market.
    That's not true at all. Even a little bit. The economies of Japan and Germany were destroyed by WWII while the United States was top dog. Within a generation they had both caught up substantially and now are selling cars and cameras to the Americans. The Chinese, while on their way to becoming the number one economy, are beating the US in every sector, except the service industry.
    Secondly, you think it's a good idea to buy Chinese solar panels for OUR country's lifeblood energy? Are you freakin' kidding me? If you let them OWN the solar industry, you don't think they'll gouge the **** out of us when we finally wake up? You KNOW they will do that.
    Nobody will OWN the solar industry, just as no one will OWN the auto industry or camera industry. Do you think other countries will be unable to make solar panels once the technology is available? Of course they can, just as they do in every other industry and market.

    There are many countries out there, with Billions in hand ready to give it away. Who cares if Solar cost 3 cents more than oil or 80 cents more than oil? If people want it, give it to them. If I can convince you that a rubber band with a magnet in it will restore your health and vitality (with regular diet and exercise), but it's all in your mind, really. Who cares? Give it to them! Money made is money made. I can't believe that the Communist Chinese have got the whole Capitalism thing worked out better than Americans. It's downright shameful.
    It is shameful, I agree, but Americans seem to have forgotten what made their country great. It was a free people creating the greatest economy in the history of mankind, and they frittered it all away by thinking they could change the capitalist system and yet things would somehow remain the same. They mis-educated their young, often making them ashamed of their country and its history, and now they will pay. The Chinese learned from the Americans but the Americans don't seem to have learned from anyone and now, despite all the evidence to the contrary, they seem to think government can look after them. This sort of ignorance is indeed shameful.

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    Re: Solar company bankrupt despite 'win-win' DOE loan

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    so, 20 grand for solar still on the grid (no storage batteries to buy)... a home improvement guy quoted me 12 for enough to run an air conditioner, but let's use the higher figure just for grins.

    I have friends who have big houses populated by kids and have backyard pools. They tell me their power bills hit $600 a month in the summer time. Of course, that's the most expensive, but let's average it out to half that for the year. That's $3,600 a year in potential savings. Now, being still on the grid, there would still be some costs, so let's say they save 3/4 of that, or $2,400 a year for 10 years. That's a pretty good return on investment, it seems to me. You might make more in the stock market, of course, but then it's likely that you'll still have those solar panels in ten years, and still be saving that $2,400 a year, or more as the cost of power goes up. Sell the house, and the solar panels add to the value.

    Seems pretty financially sound to me.
    You can run the water through a black water hose, specific to the size of the pool, for far less and with as much efficiency.

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    Re: Solar company bankrupt despite 'win-win' DOE loan

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    What's naive about taking the lead in manufacturing new tech? We did it for generations and its pretty much what put us out in front last century.
    Free enterprise put you there, not crony capitalism.

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    Re: Solar company bankrupt despite 'win-win' DOE loan

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    It's for sure the American government has got its fingers in a lot of pies and you seem to approve of that. If they give it to one industry, why not another? Correct?
    How about now that one industry is running along famously and making a profit, take government fingers out of that pie, and put not nearly as much into a different pie, and not complain about the savings?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    The people are $16 trillion in debt, and counting, and will never be in the position of bailing out the elderly, the infirm, etc. The United States is the most indebted nation since money was invented and, incredibly, many Americans seem to like it that way.
    Part of the reason we got there was to fund a conflict that insured the free flow of oil. That multi-Trillion dollar oil subsidy is one people don't want to admit to, but it's still there. And we aren't going to remove that debt by continuing to fund foreign economies with our oil money. If we make our own energy then our money isn't constantly flowing OUT of the country and it remains WITHIN the country. Additionally, if we invest in making energy better than anyone else, which I know we can, then we can win the foreign energy contracts that will ultimately bring money INTO the country. That will go a lot further to removing the debt than always investing in the energy other countries rather than our own.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Why not any business? The jobs have to be 'saved', right? And who else can do that but the politicians in Washington? Yes, why complain about any of it? If one sector is getting public money then they all should. Makes sense, huh?
    Subsidies are intended to help a critical heavy industry pay the huge startup costs to get them going. Oil for energy has been around for 100 years now. I think we can safely say the oil industry is past the "startup" stage. So let's remove the subsidies and tax breaks from the no longer "startup" oil industry and give a fraction of that to the Renewables industry. The balance can be committed to removing the national debt. Make sense?
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    Re: Solar company bankrupt despite 'win-win' DOE loan

    Quote Originally Posted by EagleAye View Post
    And thank you for responding to the three. Well, perhaps the $3.6 Billion subsidy part got buried in the text. I'm not knocking you for missing it, just still interested in your response to it.



    My posts usually take forever to show up 'cause I'm researching stuff. It works out. My wife can watch her chick flick without my snores distracting her.



    Can you understand that the Billions paid out to an already profitable oil industry, and written permanently into tax code by Senators, looks an awful lot like a payoff?
    I found the $3.6 billion thing but theres not enough specifics for me to research and respond to. If it is something like mining laws left over from the 1800s where mining company's lease claims for 5 bucks an acre I would oppose it but I have no idea what it is exactly Obama is talking about here.

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    Re: Solar company bankrupt despite 'win-win' DOE loan

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    We've tried. The GOP keeps blocking it.


    Do Republicans Realize That Keystone Pipeline Won’t Bring Gas to U.S.?

    At a congressional hearing in December, Markey asked the president of TransCanada if he would agree to allowing Keystone XL oil and its refined products to stay in the U.S. He said no. So Markey then proposed an amendment to that effect, and Republicans said no—that it couldn’t be done, because the market for oil is not just domestic; it’s global. What Canada wants to do, says Markey, “is create a connection between Alberta and Asia and use the United States as the place where the pipeline gets constructed. And so if that’s all we are is a middleman in this transaction, then the American people should know that.”


    "Drill baby Drill" is short for, "Make my campaign donors richer." That is all. It has nothing at all to do with making our lives any better, gas any cheaper, making us energy independent or anything benefiting the USofA.
    There is often very good money to be made by being 'the middle man'.

    And if you are aware of any corruption between any industry and politicians you should speak up against it. But innuendos don't cut it.

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    Re: Solar company bankrupt despite 'win-win' DOE loan

    Quote Originally Posted by EagleAye View Post
    How about now that one industry is running along famously and making a profit, take government fingers out of that pie, and put not nearly as much into a different pie, and not complain about the savings?
    Why not have all companies obey the laws and government kept at arms length?
    Subsidies are intended to help a critical heavy industry pay the huge startup costs to get them going. Oil for energy has been around for 100 years now. I think we can safely say the oil industry is past the "startup" stage. So let's remove the subsidies and tax breaks from the no longer "startup" oil industry and give a fraction of that to the Renewables industry. The balance can be committed to removing the national debt. Make sense?
    No, it doesn't make sense to me. Oil subsidies can be removed but private companies can certainly learn to make solar panels.

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    Re: Solar company bankrupt despite 'win-win' DOE loan

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Free enterprise put you there, not crony capitalism.

    Bull


    Crap


    You have bought a load of horse manure and you clearly aren't a good farmer... so to speak.

    Subsidizing isn't exactly cronyism. It can be. Lord knows here in corrupt as hell New Mexico it sure often seems like it is. You subsidize the direction the country should go. That's how the trans-continental railroad was made. That's how we got to the moon. That is how the highway system got built. That is how oil got going.

    If you stop buying into the all or none platitudes of all government is evil and all private industry free market works great... you'll see that a cooperative can be the answer... or at least a catalyst to creating a great future just as it has for us in the past.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    The sad fact is that having a pedophile win is better than having a Democrat in office. I'm all for a solution where a Republican gets in that isn't Moore.

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    Re: Solar company bankrupt despite 'win-win' DOE loan

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    There is often very good money to be made by being 'the middle man'.
    Oh I'm sure there is... but in this case all that money won't benefit hardly anyone but he who owns the pipeline itself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    And if you are aware of any corruption between any industry and politicians you should speak up against it. But innuendos don't cut it.
    Don't know what this has to do with anything. Never said there isn't corruption. Like I said, I'm in NM and it is allllll around me here. Newspaper is generally front-paged with government or government/business corruption all the time.

    In fact, here's today's front page:


    Treasurer candidate charged with fraud

    Oliver Garcia, who is seeking the post of Santa Fe County Treasurer in the June Democratic primary, has been charged with six counts of fraud for allegedly using fake vouchers for prepaid car washes.

    Democratic Party Chairman Richard Ellenberg issued a statement Friday asking Garcia, a deputy treasurer, to withdraw from the race.

    According to court documents, Garcia and his daughter, Felicia Garcia, used reproductions of prepaid car wash tickets purchased by the Treasurer's Office to have their personal vehicles washed at Oilstop on Cerrillos Road.


    Threw his future away for free car washes. They do the stupidest **** around here. Downtown Santa Fe... if you can find parking, you are paying for it. Recent scandal, over 50% of the money collected from the parking meters is stolen by the parking meter people.
    Last edited by poweRob; 04-08-12 at 12:45 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    The sad fact is that having a pedophile win is better than having a Democrat in office. I'm all for a solution where a Republican gets in that isn't Moore.

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    Re: Solar company bankrupt despite 'win-win' DOE loan

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Bull Crap You have bought a load of horse manure and you clearly aren't a good farmer... so to speak.
    Whatever.
    Subsidizing isn't exactly cronyism.
    Of course I didn't say that.

    It can be.
    It is right now.
    Lord knows here in corrupt as hell New Mexico it sure often seems like it is.
    It's Chinatown.
    You subsidize the direction the country should go.
    And only the government, with experienced people like Barack Obama, can determine that direction?

    That's how the trans-continental railroad was made. That's how we got to the moon. That is how the highway system got built. That is how oil got going.
    That's partly true. Partly.
    If you stop buying into the all or none platitudes of all government is evil and all private industry free market works great
    Of course I didn't say that either, did I?

    All you're doing in substantiating the claim I made earlier about the US education system.

    ... you'll see that a cooperative can be the answer... or at least a catalyst to creating a great future just as it has for us in the past.
    Yes, America as one big happy and prosperous Kibbutz. That might work.

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