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Thread: Detroit High School Protest: Students Suspended After Demanding 'An Education' (edite

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    Re: What blacks should be protesting: Detroit high students revolt against staff

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Invisible View Post
    OK. Here are excerpts from the article:

    The Ford Foundation also sponsored the Grey Areas program in the early 1960s, which evolved into President Johnson’s “War on Poverty,” as a program for “urban renewal,” but was, in fact, concerned with issues arising out of poor people’s (and particularly poor people of colour’s) resistance to major urban growth projects undertaken by a coalition of corporations and corporatist labour unions following World War II. As Roger Friedland wrote:

    Political challenge by the poor, and especially the nonwhite poor, threatened the dominance of the corporations and labor unions and the growth policies they pursued. It was the poorest neighborhoods which were displaced by urban renewal and highway construction, whose housing stock was depleted by clearance, whose employment opportunities were often reduced both by the expansion of office employment stimulated by central business district growth and by restrictive unionization on large construction projects and municipal jobs, and whose services were constrained by the enormous fiscal costs of the growth programs.[38]

    It was in this context that the Ford Foundation established programs aimed at ameliorating the antagonisms within the impoverished communities, not through structural or systemic change of the causes of poverty, but through organization, institutionalization, and legalistic reform programs, thus leading to the government’s “War on Poverty.” The same approach was taken in regards to the Civil Rights movement.

    The major foundations “supported the moderate civil rights organizations in response to the ‘radical flank’ threat of the militants, while non-elites (churches, unions and small individual donors) spread their support evenly.”[40]

    Elite patronage of the Civil Rights movement “diverted leaders from indigenous organizing and exacerbated inter-organizational rivalries, thereby promoting movement decay.”[41] Foundation funding for civil rights did not become significant until 1961-62, five years after the Birmingham bus boycott, and the peak of foundation support for civil rights was in 1972-73, four to five years after the assassination of King.[42] [B]This indicated that foundation grants to civil rights were ‘reactive’, in that they were designed in response to changes in the movement itself, implying that foundation patronage was aimed at social control. [...] Many of the foundations subsequently became “centrally involved in the formulation of national social policy and responded to elite concerns about the riots.”[44]


    For clarification purposes, I am mentioning slavery in a historical context for in order for us to effectively aid the black community, we must first understand why the black community is the way it is today, which would require a historical look of black people over time in terms of politics, economics, and culture.


    In terms of the War on Drugs:

    As reported in the journal, Punishment & Society:

    The impact of these developments has fallen disproportionately on young African-Americans and Latinos. By 1994, one of every three black males between the ages of 18-34 was under some form of correctional supervision, and the number of Hispanic prisoners has more than quintupled since 1980. These developments are not primarily the consequence of rising crime rates, but rather the ‘get-tough’ policies of the wars on crime and drugs.[60]

    [...]

    Just as took place during the criminalization of black life following the Civil War, the criminalization of black life following the Civil Rights Movement saw not only the growth of incarceration rates for the black community, but also saw the growth of the use of the prison population as a source of cheap labour. In today’s context, with privatization of prisons, outsourcing of prison labour, and other forms of exploitation of the “punished” population, this has given rise to what is often referred to as the “prison-industrial complex.”[63]
    Quote Originally Posted by Enola View Post
    I'm trying to understand. I really am. I'm having a really hard time, though.
    Basically, from what I read, this is the gist of it. First, the Civil Rights movement and War on Poverty were a case of corporations and elitists giving money to the moderate leaders and sects they approved of in order to ensure that those people were kept in power. Basically, what the author is saying, is that some movement leaders sold out for money. Its funny that people are always accused of selling out when they take money when without the money they would never make it to begin with. Also, why would anyone want to give money to a radical? Lets use the best example in this case. Malcolm X vs Martin Luther King. One was a radical Islamist who preached hatred and the other was a Christian minister who preached peace. Who do you think "elitists" (in other words people with money) and corporations would want to give money to? Who would you give money to? I know Malcolm X wouldn't have gotten a dime of my money because he hated me to begin with. At least MLK made it known that he just wanted equal rights, not special ones. Second, I love the way the author portrays the War on Drugs as some kind of race hunting spree that targeted blacks. Sorry bud, but you don't roll through white suburbia and see white kids on the corner dealing drugs. You see that in the black inner city. That's just facts. In addition, and this is my favorite part, is the way he portrays it as black people just minding their own business, you know, just selling some heroin and BOOM! Johnny Law comes around the corner and makes a victim of him. How dare the law enforcement officers actually ENFORCE the law instead of turning a blind eye. This guy is actually implying that its not the black drug dealers fault that he got caught BREAKING THE LAW but the cops fault for ENFORCING THE LAW. You can't make this stuff up. The fact of the matter is this. Cops don't go looking for drugs where there are no drugs. I'm not saying white people don't use drugs. They certainly do. But like I said, you don't roll through white suburbia and see drugs being dealt. You see that in black inner cities. Just like in the country. You don't see cops looking through nice, two story houses for meth labs. You see them looking through run down trailers that have tin foil over the windows. Imagine if cops came around frisking middle class families, of any color, while they were talking a walk down their nice sidewalk in Anytown, USA. We'd be up in arms. Headlines would read "Off target cops frisk mom of 3 while on walk". We would wonder what our law enforement was doing harrassing obviously innocent people. But, that's what the author insinuates should happen. We should either A) Target all citizens as possible drug dealers, pimps, and thieves or B) Just let the aforementioned criminals have at it because we don't want to seem racist. Again, you can't make this stuff up.
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

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    Re: What blacks should be protesting: Detroit high students revolt against staff

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Actually, now that you've made me think about it in that way, you're right.

    What IF Sharpton and Jackson tackled one American city? Detroit? Chicago? New York? And made a stand. This was last week:



    Why not? No, I mean, really. Why don't they do this??

    Do they not care? Does it not serve their best interests to get this black-on-black violence under control? What?
    It serves their best interest to keep stirring the pot. If these two men didn't keep **** stirred up, they would slip into obscurity. Iow, they need instability among the black community to keep themselves in the limelight.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enola View Post
    I'm trying to understand. I really am. I'm having a really hard time, though.
    Institutional racism has lead to higher rates of imprisonment and "they can't do it without us" type of poverty directed social welfare programs (which don't help). Case in point urban renewal projects that didn't use the community to build new homes, crack having harsher punishment, welfare designed to keep people on the government's dole ect.

    I'll make another post when I'm not pressed for time about the problems facing intercity education

    The difference between a democrat and a republican is who owes the favor, the politican or the business
    Hayek - too liberal for republicans

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    Re: What blacks should be protesting: Detroit high students revolt against staff

    Quote Originally Posted by Utility Man View Post
    "Thread: What blacks should be protesting: Detroit high students revolt against staff"

    Nice to see you play the race card right there in the title.

    So, is it safe to assume you think blacks should stick to protesting black issues and whites should protest white ones?

    Racially divide much?
    Made you look though didn't it?
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

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    Ok so here are some brief examples of the problems faced by the education system

    1) regulations, often enacted under union contracts, prevents some teachers from going the extra mile in some states while excusing others not going the extra mile. The initial reason for these rules, such as guaranteed breaks and being allowed to leave right when school is let out,.was to prevent principals and the system from over working their staff (which happened).
    2) the tenure system. This does not mean a job for life! it is simply due process to prevent political firings (it doesn't for teachers who haven't meet the tenure threshold). However, it does make it harder to fire bad teachers or teachers that have given up
    3) disruptive students making up the majority of a lot of classes not being kicked out. This is the main reason why teachers give up.
    4) stagnant teaching methods due to improper handling of budgets and the generational gap. Most education budgets are exhausted on redundant administrative functions and many teachers are older who have not leaned how to teach in a way that keeps the techno generation engaged.


    The difference between a democrat and a republican is who owes the favor, the politican or the business
    Last edited by xpiher; 04-03-12 at 09:30 PM.
    Hayek - too liberal for republicans

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    Re: What blacks should be protesting: Detroit high students revolt against staff

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Black-on-Black homocide doesn't give him enough facetime.
    I believe the correct term is 'genocide'...

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    Re: What blacks should be protesting: Detroit high students revolt against staff

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Give us all a break, huh?
    Sometimes I think you all have been on break way too long.

    MarineTPartier= spending the kids education money on useless wars, all the while slashing as many public programs at home as humanly possible.


    Yep, I see a whole lot of love for these kids, its all right there in the name.

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    Re: What blacks should be protesting: Detroit high students revolt against staff

    Quote Originally Posted by Utility Man View Post
    Sometimes I think you all have been on break way too long.

    MarineTPartier= spending the kids education money on useless wars, all the while slashing as many public programs at home as humanly possible.


    Yep, I see a whole lot of love for these kids, its all right there in the name.
    Yeah, because I'm in charge of appropriations for the entire US Gov't including the DOD and Department of Education. Get a friggin clue bud. Write your Congressman if you don't like how the gov't spends money.
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

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    Re: What blacks should be protesting: Detroit high students revolt against staff

    Sorry bud, but you don't roll through white suburbia and see white kids on the corner dealing drugs. You see that in the black inner city. That's just facts.
    I've witnessed a white kid dealing drugs in white suburbia. I've encountered several other white drug dealers in my profession as well. Far be it from me to defend liberals on anything, but on the drug issue, I mostly agree with them. People of all races and backgrounds deal and use drugs. The numbers seem heavily tilted toward blacks because police tend to enforce drug laws in black communities moreso than in white ones. It could very well be that there are more black drug dealers than white drug dealers. I don't know. My point is only that unequal enforcement affects our perception. The actual split is probably not as extreme as the comparative rates of incarceration. White offenders are definitely shown more latitude than black ones, although I think that might have more to do with economic class than race.

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    Re: What blacks should be protesting: Detroit high students revolt against staff

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    The African American experience is exceptional in the fact that American society as a whole has been unable to properly incorporate them. Keep in mind that, again, much in the way of social progress did not start until the 1960s and continues to evolve today. For a variety of reasons, the experience is just exceptional. Sociologists have still found Africans immigrating to America have a better experience.
    You just stated one of the reasons for such disparity, the "African American" instead of just American. Any grouping that sets itself apart is going to experience racism/sexism/etc because the very act of setting themselves apart creates animosity and tension. When you start focusing on providing services such as education based upon these artificial breakdowns of society instead of society as an homogeous whole then you break the system. Any group that hyphenates their American status needs to assimilate into the existing whole, not exist seperately.

    I cannot say for the whole country, but in the local area, there are way to many blacks that seem to relish their poverty instead of working towards ending it. I don't know how many times I have overheard blacks refering to educated, successful blacks (outside of entertainment and sports) as "acting white" or "uppity N....." because they talk and sound educated and dress like other members of society instead of talking in the eubonic slang (or whatever name it goes by now) and wearing FUBU. Until the black communities break that kind of attitude and don't pass it on to students and the community as a whole, there is going to continue to be a disparity.

    Urban schools that are mostly black or hispanic do face economic challenges due to the tax base they must work from. However, a much larger problem for schools in these economically depressed areas is disruptive influences. Gangs, drugs and disruptive students exist in all schools, but they do exist at higher per capita in these poorer school districts. These communities need to work to end or reduce these problems.

    Marine mentioned DOD schools being better than public ones in the US. This is not an anomaly, it is due to the type of community in which they exist. These schools only exist in military communities. Military members, as a whole, value education, understand and accept higher standards of discipline, and demonstrate a much higher work ethic than is found in most American societies. They set a much better example for their children. Also, these schools exist in communities with much lower per capita rate of diruptive influences and have a greater ability to deal with disruptive students.

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