View Poll Results: Who bombed the Wisonsin Planned Parenthood?

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  • A conservative, who is against PP

    11 20.37%
  • A liberal, who wants PP back in the news

    1 1.85%
  • I haven't a clue

    7 12.96%
  • I don't care. I just want this criminal arrested

    35 64.81%
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Thread: A Planned Parenthood Clinic In Wisconsin Was BOMBED Last Night

  1. #171
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    Re: A Planned Parenthood Clinic In Wisconsin Was BOMBED Last Night

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    It is pro choice.
    Ha~!!!

  2. #172
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    Re: A Planned Parenthood Clinic In Wisconsin Was BOMBED Last Night

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    It makes me seriously wonder about the actual positions of the other membership - do they even know that they are on this list? Or has the RCRC simply taken support statements from groups within them like the UMW and treated them as authoritative?
    The members know they are a part of the RCRC.

    Here are some Q & A about the RCRC from



    Questions and Answers



    August 29, 2012--
    What is the Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice?

    The Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice (RCRC) is the national community of religious and spiritual people, denominations and organizations from all faith traditions working together for ethical and responsible policies, laws and resources that make reproductive health care and rights accessible to all.

    Do United Methodist funds go toward RCRC?


    No. Neither United Methodist Women nor General Board of Church & Society donates any funds to support RCRC.

    Do we really need to be in this organization?

    Women of faith need to be at the table when reproductive issues are discussed. RCRC is the only faith-based organization addressing reproductive justice.


    In October 2008, the Women’s Division passed Reproductive Freedom For All Women, stating,
    “The Women’s Division and United Methodist Women reaffirm our strong support for reproductive health and freedom for all women, both in the United States and around the world, as part of its historic focus on women’s health and one of The United Methodist Church’s new quadrennial foci which is ‘improving health globally.’”


    Our United Methodist Church presence has influenced the work of RCRC. It has broadened its mission to include a wider range of reproductive justice programs largely due to United Methodist voices.


    So, we agree with every position this organization takes now?
    No two faith groups have exactly the same point of view, but we affirm the need for morally informed choices. United Methodist Women brings the particular voice of our organization in accordance with the Social Principles.

    Banning abortion would result in fewer maternal death.

    This is false. Without abortion as a legal option, maternal deaths rise because women in desperation seek unsafe medical procedures.


    Because United Methodist Women is concerned about the health and wellbeing of women (mothers), “we support the legal option of abortion under proper medical procedures” within the parameters as stated in the Social Principles (161.J).

    Is it true that RCRC only wants to expand access to abortions?

    No. Other RCRC programs bring a more comprehensive response to reproductive issues in the church.
    United Methodists have benefitted from clergy trainings, pregnancy preventative education and reproductive health awareness programs.


    Does RCRC only impact the United States?

    While RCRC is a U.S.-based coalition, it is a model for how other regions of the world can create faith coalitions to address reproductive issues that affect women everywhere.
    UMW-Resource - United Methodist Women and the Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice
    Last edited by minnie616; 09-26-13 at 06:20 PM.
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

  3. #173
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    Re: A Planned Parenthood Clinic In Wisconsin Was BOMBED Last Night

    I predict that state healthcare registry offices will be next. I saw a sign outside a building on my way to work this morning stating that registration starts next week. My first thought was "I need a different route to work". I don't want to be anywhere near that just in case.

    Something that has always made me wonder... why are people so upset when an abortion clinic is bombed? The very reason the places exist is to end lives, and those who are killed have no say in the matter. So why is it so disappointing when those who work there are killed without their consent? Yeah, I know the pro abortion folks prefer to use the term ZEF instead of "person" to grant themselves absolution, but really, besides the age of the person, what it the difference? And when states make laws that limit abortion to shorter time frames, the pro abortion folks get upset. So lets just assume that if you step in to an abortion clinic that you have a 50/50 chance of being killed and enter at your own risk.

  4. #174
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    Re: A Planned Parenthood Clinic In Wisconsin Was BOMBED Last Night

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    ***The Women’s Division and United Methodist Women*** reaffirm our strong support for reproductive health and freedom for all women, both in the United States and around the world, as part of its historic focus on women’s health and one of The United Methodist Church’s new quadrennial foci which is ‘improving health globally.’”

    I'm honestly not sure how many times the same thing can be pointed out to you


    "The Women’s Division and United Methodist Women" =/= UMC. The UMC was referenced a long time a go directly from their official website

  5. #175
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    Re: A Planned Parenthood Clinic In Wisconsin Was BOMBED Last Night

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    Ha~!!!
    Yes, supporting legal abortions or risk of major health problems for the woman and extreme fetal abnormalities is considered pro choice.

    Those 2 reasons along with Rape are the only reasons I would consider an having abortion.

    Thankfully I past child bearing years but many of loved ones are not and it important to keep abortions legal because desperate women seek desperate actions.

    I have always strongly supported and advocated contraceptive education and birth control methods as the best means for making abortions rare.
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

  6. #176
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    Re: A Planned Parenthood Clinic In Wisconsin Was BOMBED Last Night

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    Yes, supporting legal abortions or risk of major health problems for the woman and extreme fetal abnormalities is considered pro choice.
    No, they *ONLY* support legal abortion when the woman's health is at risk. This is a position I've never seen you suggest was "pro-choice" before. In fact, you have only indicated the exact opposite.

    Example: I'm sure you would in no way suggest JayDubya was "pro-choice", but am pretty sure he supports a similar position


    Those 2 reasons along with Rape are the only reasons I would consider an having abortion.
    We are not talking about personal choices, we are discussing *LEGAL* positions. The UMC *LEGAL* position is that abortion should only be legal in the context of extreme deformity or parental health. But keep trying to work and word your way around those facts


    I have always strongly supported and advocated contraceptive education and birth control methods as the best means for making abortions rare.
    Which is ABSOLUTELY irrelevant to what we are discussing

  7. #177
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    Re: A Planned Parenthood Clinic In Wisconsin Was BOMBED Last Night

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    ...

    We are not talking about personal choices, we are discussing *LEGAL* positions. The UMC *LEGAL* position is that abortion should only be legal in the context of extreme deformity or parental health. But keep trying to work and word your way around those facts
    The Book of Discipline is about the Social Principles the Chuch teaches its members.
    It is not about their LEGAL policy.

    Background:

    The first reference to abortion in official proceedings of the General Conference came in 1968, when a study document titled "Church and Family" was adopted. This did not have the force of a pronouncement by the denomination but indicated the direction in which the church was moving.

    The Social Principles of the United Methodist Church first dealt with abortion in 1972.


    Found in the Book of Discipline, the Social Principles are a "prayerful and thoughtful effort on the part of the General Conference to speak to the human issues in the contemporary world from a sound biblical and theological foundation as historically demonstrated in United Methodist traditions."


    The principles are “a call to faithfulness and are intended to be instructive and persuasive in the best of the prophetic spirit;
    however, they are not church law.


    The Social Principles are a call to all members of The United Methodist Church to a prayerful, studied dialogue of faith and practice.” They represent the mind of the General Conference on social issues. The General Conference amended the 1972 statement on abortion in 1976, 1980, 1984, 1988, 1992, 1996 and 2000. [more]


    Abortion
    The beginning of life and the ending of life are the God-given boundaries of human existence. While individuals have always had some degree of control over when they would die, they now have the awesome power to determine when and even whether new individuals will be born. [more]

    Ministry to Those Who Have Experienced an Abortion
    We urge local pastors to become informed about the symptoms and behaviors associated with post-abortion stress. We further encourage local churches to make available contact information for counseling agencies that offer programs to address post-abortion stress for all seeking help. [more]

    Right to Health Care
    We affirm the right of men and women to have access to comprehensive reproductive health/family planning information and services which will serve as a means to prevent unplanned pregnancies, reduce abortions and prevent the spread of HIV/AIDS. [more]

    From the Book of Resolutions of The United Methodist Church (2004)

    Responsible Parenthood
    We affirm the principle of responsible parenthood. The family, in its varying forms, constitutes the primary focus of love, acceptance, and nurture, bringing fulfillment to parents and child. Healthful and whole personhood develops as one is loved, responds to love, and in that relationship comes to wholeness as a child of God. [more]

    Healing of Post-Abortion Stress

    WHEREAS, we recognize that there is a legal right to an abortion, we also recognize that some regret that event later in life, … [more]

    Support for the Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice

    WHEREAS, The United Methodist Church was a founding member of the Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice in 1973, and … [more]


    WHEREAS, the General Board of Church and Society and the Women's Division of the General Board of Global Ministries are currently members of the Religious Coalition, along with national organizations from 14 denominations, including the Episcopal Church, Presbyterian Church (USA), United Church of Christ, Unitarian Universalism, Reform and Conservative Judaism, and

    WHEREAS, these Coalition member organizations hold a wide variety of views regarding policies relating to specific issues of reproductive choice such as when life and personhood begins but, nevertheless, share common religious values, have official pro-choice policies, and are committed to working together to ensure reproductive choice for all persons through the moral power of religious communities, and

    WHEREAS, the Religious Coalition supports the right of all persons to have access to a wide range of reproductive health services including sexuality education, family planning services, contraception, abortion services, affordable and quality health and child care, and

    WHEREAS, the Religious Coalition's All Options Clergy Counseling program trains clergy of many faiths to assist women in discerning the course of action that they believe is best in a case of unintended pregnancy, and

    WHEREAS, internationally, the Religious Coalition is an accredited non-governmental organization with the United Nations Department of Public Information which supports international family planning services in such areas as South Africa where the Coalition works with churches on HIV/AIDS education and prevention, and

    WHEREAS, the Coalition's efforts help counter attempts to enact restrictive legislation that would impose specific religious views about abortion and reproductive health on persons of all faiths, and

    WHEREAS, factions within the United Methodist Church whose stated goal is to have the General Conference go on record in opposition to all abortions regardless of the reason are working towards the goal of severing all United Methodist ties with the Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice;

    Therefore, be it resolved, that the United Methodist 2004 General Conference go on record in support of the work of the Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice, and
    Be it further resolved, that the 2004 General Conference affirm
    the continued membership of the General Board of Church and Society and the Women's Division of the General Board of Global Ministries
    in the Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice.
    Abortion: Overview - UMC.org
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

  8. #178
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    Re: A Planned Parenthood Clinic In Wisconsin Was BOMBED Last Night

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    The Book of Discipline is about the Social Principles the Chuch teaches its members.
    It is not about their LEGAL policy.
    1) then why would you cite it here in a discussion on what the UMC supports as legal policy??

    2)Please read this, very slowly: " In continuity with past Christian teaching, we recognize tragic conflicts of life with life that may justify abortion, and in such cases we support the ***LEGAL*** option of abortion under proper medical procedures. ****We cannot affirm abortion as an acceptable means of birth control, and we unconditionally reject it as a means of gender selection.****"


    Abortion

  9. #179
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    Re: A Planned Parenthood Clinic In Wisconsin Was BOMBED Last Night

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    Yes, supporting legal abortions or risk of major health problems for the woman and extreme fetal abnormalities is considered pro choice.
    No, it really isn't.

    That's "pro-life" (anti-abortion) with exceptions... but not even that, those are exceptions that virtually everyone agrees with, far moreso even than people agree with a rape exception.

    Hell, even I believe in following the basic principle of triage and saving the patient you can save, but by your standard above, I'm "pro-choice" (pro-abortion). And if you're calling ME pro-abortion, if you were correct in your assertion, there really wouldn't be anyone left who isn't...



    Of course, we have seen folks like George Tiller who used such exceptions along with his rubber stamp partner to do loads of "medically neccessary" killings that weren't. At all. So it is clear that such an exemption would need to be policed diligently and with severe consequences...

  10. #180
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    Re: A Planned Parenthood Clinic In Wisconsin Was BOMBED Last Night

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    1) then why would you cite it here in a discussion on what the UMC supports as legal policy??

    2)Please read this, very slowly: " In continuity with past Christian teaching, we recognize tragic conflicts of life with life that may justify abortion, and in such cases we support the ***LEGAL*** option of abortion under proper medical procedures. ****We cannot affirm abortion as an acceptable means of birth control, and we unconditionally reject it as a means of gender selection.****"


    Abortion
    The UMC does not support illegal abortions but in such cases ...

    we support the legal option of abortion under proper medical procedures.[/B]
    they went on to affirm they did not support late term D & E :
    We oppose the use of late-term abortion known as dilation and extraction (partial-birth abortion) and call for the end of this practice except when the physical life of the mother is in danger and no other medical procedure is available, or in the case of severe fetal anomalies incompatible with life. We call all Christians to a searching and prayerful inquiry into the sorts of conditions that may warrant abortion. [/B]
    Abortion
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

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