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Thread: Obamacare adds $17 trillion in unfunded liabilities

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    Obamacare adds $17 trillion in unfunded liabilities

    Senate Republican staffers continue to look though the 2010 health care reform law to see what’s in it, and their latest discovery is a massive $17 trillion funding gap...

    The hidden shortfall between new spending and new taxes was revealed just after Supreme Court justices grilled the law’s supporters about its compliance with the Constitution’s limits on government activity. If the court doesn’t strike down the law, it will force taxpayers to find another $17 trillion to pay for the increased spending.
    Obamacare | Shortfall | Jeff Sessions | The Daily Caller

    I distinctly remember Obama saying the law "wouldn't add a dime" to the debt total.

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    Re: Obamacare adds $17 trillion in unfunded liabilities

    Quote Originally Posted by ZIRP4EVA View Post
    Obamacare | Shortfall | Jeff Sessions | The Daily Caller

    I distinctly remember Obama saying the law "wouldn't add a dime" to the debt total.
    Are you serious? A Senate Republican staffer came up with this revelation? And they're just now getting around to reading the bill?

    AFAIK the fiscal impact of the bill is scored by CBO, which determined that it would would REDUCE deficits by something like $150 billion over 10 years.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: Obamacare adds $17 trillion in unfunded liabilities

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Are you serious? A Senate Republican staffer came up with this revelation? And they're just now getting around to reading the bill?

    AFAIK the fiscal impact of the bill is scored by CBO, which determined that it would would REDUCE deficits by something like $150 billion over 10 years.
    In fairness to the CBO do you really believe the assumptions that they were asked to score? Why do some continue with the same tired arguments that almost noone believes is true.

    If we can't have a honest discussion why waste people's time?

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    Re: Obamacare adds $17 trillion in unfunded liabilities

    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    In fairness to the CBO do you really believe the assumptions that they were asked to score? Why do some continue with the same tired arguments that almost noone believes is true.

    If we can't have a honest discussion why waste people's time?
    If you want to have a serious discussion, why don't you start by naming the assumptions that you think are unrealistic?
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: Obamacare adds $17 trillion in unfunded liabilities

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    If you want to have a serious discussion, why don't you start by naming the assumptions that you think are unrealistic?

    OK I have not read the whole thing but here are some examples.

    - The $500 billion of unspecified savings from medicare. Even when/if people come up with savings it will be needed just to keep medicare solvent.

    - Most people will get to keep the insurance they have. There have been some detailed studies from capable consulting forms that say the numbers of folks thrown
    off their employer based system will be orders of magnitude higher than the bill states.

    - No realistic annual increases to doctors and hospitals, the so-called doc fix that gets added each year.

    - No provision to increase the supply of doctors although demand will increase. I jokingly asked a doctor the other day how many extra hours a day he will work to
    cover a large increase in potential consumers.

    - Expecting that the mandate which in the early years is only a fine of about $800 bucks per year will "force people into the system" which costs a lot more than that.
    Might have been realistic if they had a catastropic insurance program for the healthy young that are willing to take their chances.

    - The taxes built into the program. Obama is calling for higher taxes in many forms already for the wealthy. How many times can you count the same tax increase.

    - I don't know what they used for health care inflation but am willing to bet it is lower than what our actual experience has/ will be.

    That was a couple of minutes of thinking. Now I don't know or acknowledge the $17 trillion number, probably BS as well.

    Just doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that you can't give tens of millions of people something for free and expect it to have a cost of below zero.

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    Re: Obamacare adds $17 trillion in unfunded liabilities

    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    OK I have not read the whole thing but here are some examples.

    - The $500 billion of unspecified savings from medicare. Even when/if people come up with savings it will be needed just to keep medicare solvent.
    The savings are not "unsepcified".

    "Nearly $220 billion comes from reducing annual increases in payments that health care providers would otherwise receive from Medicare. Other savings include $36 billion from increases in premiums for higher-income beneficiaries and $12 billion from administrative changes. A new national board will be tasked to identify $15.5 billion in savings, but the board -- the Independent Payment Advisory Board -- is prohibited from proposing anything that would ration care or reduce or modify benefits. Then there's another $136 billion in projected savings that would come from changes to the Medicare Advantage program. About 25 percent of Medicare beneficiaries are enrolled in a Medicare Advantage plan. PolitiFact | $500 billion from Medicare for Obamacare, Mitt Romney says

    - Most people will get to keep the insurance they have. There have been some detailed studies from capable consulting forms that say the numbers of folks thrown
    off their employer based system will be orders of magnitude higher than the bill states.
    There are been reports that come out on every side of the question. Personally I see no reason why employers would drop coverage. And in fact, we don't have to guess what would happen. In Massachusettes, where Romney instituted a nearly identical plan, employer coverage actually increased by 3%.

    - No realistic annual increases to doctors and hospitals, the so-called doc fix that gets added each year.
    The doc fix isn't part of AHCA. It's been going on for years and it will probably continue with or without AHCA.

    - No provision to increase the supply of doctors although demand will increase. I jokingly asked a doctor the other day how many extra hours a day he will work to
    cover a large increase in potential consumers.
    I agree that it's an issue that needs to be addressed, but it's a structural rather than a cost problem and so has nothing to do with the CBO's cost estimates.

    - Expecting that the mandate which in the early years is only a fine of about $800 bucks per year will "force people into the system" which costs a lot more than that.
    Might have been realistic if they had a catastropic insurance program for the healthy young that are willing to take their chances.
    Again, we don't have to guess. The Massachusettes example suggests that it would be effective.

    - The taxes built into the program. Obama is calling for higher taxes in many forms already for the wealthy. How many times can you count the same tax increase.
    The CBO does not assume taxes that haven't been proposed.

    - I don't know what they used for health care inflation
    Why am I not surprised?

    That was a couple of minutes of thinking. Now I don't know or acknowledge the $17 trillion number, probably BS as well.

    Just doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that you can't give tens of millions of people something for free and expect it to have a cost of below zero.
    You should have taken a few more minutes to think about it. None of the alleged false assumptions you listed appear to be false assumptions.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: Obamacare adds $17 trillion in unfunded liabilities

    It is so imperative that the SCOTUS throws Obamacare out..............It will bankrupt our country.....
    "God Bless Our Troops in Harms Way."

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    Re: Obamacare adds $17 trillion in unfunded liabilities

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Are you serious? A Senate Republican staffer came up with this revelation? And they're just now getting around to reading the bill?

    AFAIK the fiscal impact of the bill is scored by CBO, which determined that it would would REDUCE deficits by something like $150 billion over 10 years.
    Actually if I recall correctly they only measured what was known of the bill at the time. Remember, when they did their estimate the bill wasn't even signed into law yet.

    Unless they have done another one since that I am not aware of?
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    Re: Obamacare adds $17 trillion in unfunded liabilities

    Quote Originally Posted by ZIRP4EVA View Post
    Obamacare | Shortfall | Jeff Sessions | The Daily Caller

    I distinctly remember Obama saying the law "wouldn't add a dime" to the debt total.
    When did Obama say that? The agreement was for 1 trillion over the first 10 years, which the program met. In fact this whole thing is a ****ing joke. Random republicans make claims about **** that might happen 75 years from now...somehow that just does not convince me. Really, projecting 10 years from now is painfully inaccurate, and this random republican claims he can predict 75 years from now?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Obamacare adds $17 trillion in unfunded liabilities

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Actually if I recall correctly they only measured what was known of the bill at the time. Remember, when they did their estimate the bill wasn't even signed into law yet.

    Unless they have done another one since that I am not aware of?
    There has been a couple more since the bill wasfinalized.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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