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Registered Dem Killed Trayvon

Res Cogitans said:
Well, I have to admit. You might be right about this. I teach at a University, so the liberals and conservatives I know would NEVER EVER think anything of the sort.

That includes my 18 year old students.

Maybe this whole thing is in worse shape than I thought.

By "this whole thing," I mean America.
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I think you may overestimate the people you know at your university, particularly among the student body.

As to the country at large, well, reactionaries are hardly new, but not being aware of the type of person who would do this is pretty naive. Witness, for example, the immediate blame laid for the Giffords shooting. If you think that many of the same people who participated in that didn't also assume that Zimmerman was probably a conservative Republican and a racist, then I don't know what to say.
 
Hatuey said:
No. They're both irrelevant. I'm just asking how you know he is not. You seem to be dodging the question. How do you know he's not a tea partier?
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Absent any evidence that he's TEA party, why should I think that he is? Let's say he was though, would your initial response to a thread making an issue of that be exactly what it was in this thread?
 
Josie said:
Isn't it interesting that they keep saying that Zimmerman is a white Hispanic? Why not just say "Hispanic"?
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Or why not just say "white"?
 
Harshaw said:
I think you may overestimate the people you know at your university, particularly among the student body.

As to the country at large, well, reactionaries are hardly new, but not being aware of the type of person who would do this is pretty naive. Witness, for example, the immediate blame laid for the Giffords shooting. If you think that many of the same people who participated in that didn't also assume that Zimmerman was probably a conservative Republican and a racist, then I don't know what to say.
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No, but with the Giffords shooting, there was the obvious possibility because she was a Liberal political figure, serving in her capacity as a representative. If martin were a political figure it would make some sense. Just as it is, I can see no connection between the attack and party affiliation.

But ANY time ANY political figure ANYWHERE is attacked it is reasonable to first assume that it was a political attack.

Not so much with the young Mr. Martin.


I know lots of liberals, and plenty conservatives, too. And I can assure you that no one I know has made any such claim.


And I would laugh in their face if they did.
 
X Factor said:
Absent any evidence that he's TEA party, why should I think that he is? Let's say he was though, would your initial response to a thread making an issue of that be exactly what it was in this thread?
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his personality is stereotypical Tea-Bagger.

over-compensating, over-stepping his boundaries, wanna-be cop, angry at women, angry at youth, etc etc.
 
I sure seem to remember that kook that shot giffords being a republican and that **** was rammed down my throat for 2 months.
 
Thunder said:
his personality is stereotypical Tea-Bagger.

over-compensating, over-stepping his boundaries, wanna-be cop, angry at women, angry at youth, etc etc.
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:shock: :cuckoo:
 
Thunder said:
his personality is stereotypical Tea-Bagger.

over-compensating, over-stepping his boundaries, wanna-be cop, angry at women, angry at youth, etc etc.
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Speaking of stereotypes, this one is "hit rock bottom and keep on digging." Or maybe that's just a cliche'. Either way . . .
 
Thunder said:
his personality is stereotypical Tea-Bagger.

over-compensating, over-stepping his boundaries, wanna-be cop, angry at women, angry at youth, etc etc.
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Well, I don't know what a "Tea-bagger" is, but, by your description, I'm guessing it's a group you belong to?
 
X Factor said:
Absent any evidence that he's TEA party, why should I think that he is? Let's say he was though, would your initial response to a thread making an issue of that be exactly what it was in this thread?
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No. Is your response that this is somehow worse/better because he's a Democrat?
 
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Res Cogitans said:
No, but with the Giffords shooting, there was the obvious possibility because she was a Liberal political figure, serving in her capacity as a representative. If martin were a political figure it would make some sense. Just as it is, I can see no connection between the attack and party affiliation.

But ANY time ANY political figure ANYWHERE is attacked it is reasonable to first assume that it was a political attack.
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Not really, and even it were, to assume the political leanings of the attacker is not reasonable. Is it reasonable to assume that any assault against a Jew must be a Muslim?


I know lots of liberals, and plenty conservatives, too. And I can assure you that no one I know has made any such claim.


And I would laugh in their face if they did.
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I didn't say they made the claim. It wasn't about that; it was about thinking it.
 
dontworrybehappy said:
I sure seem to remember that kook that shot giffords being a republican and that **** was rammed down my throat for 2 months.
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Maybe it was because his goals were political? :/ Just a guess?
 
Hatuey said:
No.
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Ok, I was asking with sincerity and I believe your answer.

Is your response that this is somehow worse/better because he's a Democrat?
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My initial post acknowledged that Zimmerman's party affiliation (whatever it is) is irrelevant, so yes.
 
Harshaw said:
Not really, and even it were, to assume the political leanings of the attacker is not reasonable. Is it reasonable to assume that any assault against a Jew must be a Muslim?
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This is an awful analogy. If you don't see why political parties and religions are different in what they represent and how they interact with one another, there is not enough time and space on these forums to begin to explain it. And I certainly don't even have the energy to try.

My point was only that it is reasonable to assume (and when I say "reasonably assume" I mean something like generate a first stage working-hypothesis) that when a politician is attacked--in their capacity as a politician--that the attack is a political attack. If Giffords was attacked in her home, it might be a reasonable question to ask, bot not necessarily a reasonable assumption.


I didn't say they made the claim. It wasn't about that; it was about thinking it.
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Well, I'm not a mind reader, so I don't really think much about this kind of thing. And even if I did, I certainly wouldn't be willing to defend it as true.
 
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X Factor said:
No, absolutely not.
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Good to know. It's an act of desperation on Joko's part. This killing wasn't even remotely political. It had nothing to do with politics. It had to do with specific circumstance. Not as if Zimmerman killed Martin because he didn't like Republicans/Democrats/Libertarians or whatever.
 
Last I checked murder is murder. I doubt the political leaning of the murderer is of great importance. Now views on things like RACE in this particular case....
 
Res Cogitans said:
This is an awful analogy. If you don't see why political parties and religions are different in what they represent and how they interact with one another, there is not enough time and space on these forums to begin to explain it. And I certainly don't even have the energy to try.
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It's not an awful analogy at all, especially these days when so many treat their political philosophies and religions nearly identically. (Of course, that's not terribly new, either.) They absolutely do "interact" with each other in a very similar manner.

Again, you need to get out more.


My point was only that it is reasonable to assume (and when I say "reasonably assume" I mean something like generate a first stage working-hypothesis) that when a politician is attacked--in their capacity as a politician, that the attack is a political attack. If Giffords was attacked in her home, it might be a reasonable question to ask, bot not necessarily a reasonable assumption.
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What makes you think I was referring to, say, a Jew being attacked in his/her home and not their capacity as a Jew?

I don't know; you seem to be stealing a lot of bases throughout this entire conversation.


Well, I'm not a mind reader, so I don't really think much about this kind of thing.
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Yet, you got all over me for suggesting it happens, when it's not even something that's on your radar and you apparently have no basis on which to say I'm wrong.


And even if I did, I certainly wouldn't be willing to defend it as true.
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Didn't say you would. This is another stolen base.

Looks to me that as someone who's been posting about people overcoming their programming, you've got a considerable amount of your own to work through.
 
Krasche said:
Last I checked murder is murder. I doubt the political leaning of the murderer is of great importance. Now views on things like RACE....
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Well it depends on the killing. The assassination of a president is without a doubt almost always political. The killing of some kid in the middle of the street is hard to prove as being political unless we are a paradigm of actual political unrest. If we were South Africa or Argentina in the 80s, I'd have no doubt that there may have been politics involved. However, the relevance isn't there for this case.
 
Hatuey said:
Well it depends on the killing. The assassination of a president is without a doubt almost always political. The killing of some kid in the middle of the street is hard to prove as being political unless we are a paradigm of actual political unrest. If we were South Africa or Argentina in the 80s, I'd have no doubt that there may have been politics involved. However, the relevance isn't there for this case.
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My apologies, I worded that incorrectly. Case by case motives are different. I agree political leaning had no effect here. However, I do believe it was racially motivated seeing as Zimmerman "Felt threatened and acted in self defense" against an unarmed teenage eating skittles.
 
Krasche said:
My apologies, I worded that incorrectly. Case by case motives are different. I agree political leaning had no effect here. However, I do believe it was racially motivated seeing as Zimmerman "Felt threatened and acted in self defense" against an unarmed teenage eating skittles.
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I think what is relevant to this being racial is the fact that Zimmerman had a history of racial profiling. That he killed a kid eating skittles doesn't really do it. What does it for me is that he'd go around the neighbourhood telling people to be suspicious of black males who didn't look like they belonged. I'm not even sure what the hell that means - I've lived in the middle of nowhere Vermont and I stuck out like a sore thumb. Never had any of the locals aim a gun at me and be threatened by me. Then again, I'm pretty relaxed around most people.
 
Hatuey said:
I think what is relevant to this being racial is the fact that Zimmerman had a history of racial profiling. That he killed a kid eating skittles doesn't really do it. What does it for me is that he'd go around the neighbourhood telling people to be suspicious of black males who didn't look like they belonged. I'm not even sure what the hell that means - I've lived in the middle of nowhere Vermont and I stuck out like a sore thumb. Never had any of the locals aim a gun at me and be threatened by me. Then again, I'm pretty relaxed around most people.
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I think we can all learn something through this: Anyone who tells you race is no longer an issue in America is full of ****. Racism is everywhere. Maybe not at the level it was pre-civil rights era, but it's definitely still a very present issue.
 
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