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Thread: Kansas House prayer gets political

  1. #41
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    Re: Kansas House prayer gets political

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    So what youre saying is you want to restrict speech :P
    Got it.

    Limiting expression because its controversial is not a reason its a rationalization. Abortion is a moral religious issue just as much as it is political one. Why cant he speak about it? The fact that its a tax payer supported venue is completely beside the point, you either ban religious speech completely or you leave it completely alone---trying to find a middle ground is just hypocritical. Ban it completely or leave it completely alone and let the invites work as a limiting factor, the politicians in the congressional body will make decisions on whats over the line and what isnt.

    Restricting someone's speech because you do not like it is not a valid reason to silence it. Controversy is not a reason to silence it. Whats that leave? You think its too political? Or you think its too critical of your views?

    Ill repeat my position over again, ban it completely or leave it alone completely. Whats your position? Control his speech? Well, looky-looky, thats censorship.

    No, what I’m saying is that I agree with the court ruling In “Everson v. Board of Education” and associate Justice Hugo Black, when he stated the following.
    “The First Amendment has erected a wall between church and state. That wall must be kept high and impregnable. We could not approve the slightest breach. “
    Note last sentence in the paragraph above? Slightest breach. The rant by Father Gordon, before the Kansas Legislators ranked as an attempted breach imo.
    The haggardness of poverty is everywhere seen contrasted with the sleekness of wealth, the exhorted labor of some compensating for the idleness of others, wretched hovels by the side of stately colonnades, the rags of indigence blended with the ensigns of opulence; in a word, the most useless profusion in the midst of the most urgent wants.Jean-Baptiste Say

  2. #42
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    Re: Kansas House prayer gets political

    This is EXACTLY the kind of people that Jesus was talking about when he said: " And when you pray, you shall not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Truly I say to you, They have their reward."
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Kansas House prayer gets political

    Quote Originally Posted by treedancer View Post
    No, what I’m saying is that I agree with the court ruling In “Everson v. Board of Education” and associate Justice Hugo Black, when he stated the following.


    Note last sentence in the paragraph above? Slightest breach. The rant by Father Gordon, before the Kansas Legislators ranked as an attempted breach imo.
    Then there should not be a prayer at all. If the prayer is permitted at all, the content is not allowed to be then be censored, limiting the speech already being allowed. As I said before you want to both allow the speech and limit it. If you allow the speech you cannot then limit it. You are trying to apply separation to limit speech that has already been excepted. You dont get to pick and choose, you allow without restrictions or you dont allow it at all. You are wildly inconsistent in application of the law. Let the invitiations make the decision, letting the law pick what speech is and isnt allowed would be censorship at best.

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    Re: Kansas House prayer gets political

    Quote OpportunityCost

    Then there should not be a prayer at all.
    So be it. If they can’t keep there political axes on the back burner long enough to give blessing to a legislative assembly then they have bigger problems than prayer can help. maybe they should see a shrink.

    If the prayer is permitted at all, the content is not allowed to be then be censored, limiting the speech already being allowed.
    WTF is this jumbled package of ****? If the wingers want to say a political prayer then they should go to the Salvation Army bright and early on a Sunday morning and give a blessing and a political rant.I’m sure the bloodshot eyeballs peering back at him will be thankful.

    As I said before you want to both allow the speech and limit it.
    And as I said before that’s BS.

    If you allow the speech you cannot then limit it.

    Sure you can, it happens all the time.

    You are trying to apply separation to limit speech that has already been excepted.

    Explain how it has been accepted in the OP.

    You dont get to pick and choose, you allow without restrictions or you dont allow it at all.
    Sorry you think that way… you’re in the minority. thankfully.

    You are wildly inconsistent in application of the law.

    What law? Surely you’re not referring to the First Amendment. Did you forget the part about, that wall must be kept high and impregnable? We could not approve the slightest breach.

    Let the invitiations make the decision,
    In the Kansas case, that’s what they did but Father Gordon ignored their request.

    letting the law pick what speech is and isnt allowed would be censorship at best.
    Like I said before there are plenty of park benches in Pershing Square…might have to kick a few winos off first but I’m sure they will appreciate the rant as much as the Kansas legislators appreciated it.
    The haggardness of poverty is everywhere seen contrasted with the sleekness of wealth, the exhorted labor of some compensating for the idleness of others, wretched hovels by the side of stately colonnades, the rags of indigence blended with the ensigns of opulence; in a word, the most useless profusion in the midst of the most urgent wants.Jean-Baptiste Say

  5. #45
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    Re: Kansas House prayer gets political

    You are already allowing the breach in allowing the prayer in the House at ALL. You then want to exacerbate things by mixing religion and government further by allowing or disallowing speech by deciding what is and is not the church's business. Ive spelled this out several times, you dont seem to be getting it.

    WTF is this jumbled package of ****? If the wingers want to say a political prayer then they should go to the Salvation Army bright and early on a Sunday morning and give a blessing and a political rant.I’m sure the bloodshot eyeballs peering back at him will be thankful.
    Dont be a jerk. It IS a forum rule.

    Sorry you think that way… you’re in the minority. thankfully.
    DBAJ...again.
    Like I said before there are plenty of park benches in Pershing Square…might have to kick a few winos off first but I’m sure they will appreciate the rant as much as the Kansas legislators appreciated it.
    and....again. Stop fishing, Im not taking the bait. You arent debating, youre trying to provoke me. You do it again in this thread and I will report you.

    In the Kansas case, that’s what they did but Father Gordon ignored their request.
    They invited him, that says someone wanted to hear him speak. If hes not invited back, that shows others where the line is.

    What law? Surely you’re not referring to the First Amendment. Did you forget the part about, that wall must be kept high and impregnable? We could not approve the slightest breach.
    Explain how it has been accepted in the OP.
    Applies for both qutoed sections :Everson v. Board of Education was in 47, why is there still a prayer in the House? That seems to be a breach. Which has been my point all along. Once the breach is allowed the same rule cannot then be re-applied to evoke control over the content of the breach. Dont allow the breach at all or dont try to control it all. Be consistent. You are not being consistent at all.

    Sure you can, it happens all the time.
    Examples please.

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    Re: Kansas House prayer gets political

    Quote Originally Posted by katiegrrl0 View Post
    The nation turns into a theocracy and starts to look like Iran.
    It's never happen don't think that

  7. #47
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    Re: Kansas House prayer gets political

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    This is EXACTLY the kind of people that Jesus was talking about when he said: " And when you pray, you shall not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Truly I say to you, They have their reward."
    That makes no sense - everyone who goes to church to pray and commune is a hypocrite? Or what?
    A screaming comes across the sky.
    It has happened before, but there is nothing to compare it to now.
    Pynchon - Gravity's Rainbow

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    Re: Kansas House prayer gets political

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    Pick a different church and different pastor or minister to deliver the prayer. The views hes putting forth are religious ones as well as political ones.

    BTW high irony alert, youre worried about politics and religion mixing in a state house prayer? What did you think was going to happen? Its a religious ceremony at the state legislature. LOL
    Religion is mixing in the state politics

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