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Thread: Kansas House prayer gets political

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    Re: Kansas House prayer gets political

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I expect the government to behave like rational adults. They are free to pray, but about general guidance and wisdom and blah blah blah. Praying for specific legislation not so much. They know how to act within the boundaries of decorum and respect; they just choose not to. And I don’t think that’s a quality we want in politicians.
    Easy solution: dont invite them back.

    Lots of pushback occurring right now in regards to church beliefs in their public works, do you really expect them not to push back?

    I have no expectations for politicians. Which is why I think we need to turn them out, either party, after 2 maybe 3 terms.

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    Re: Kansas House prayer gets political

    Quote OpportunityCost

    Only thing stupider than this thread
    Yet here you are, in a thread that you consider stupid…amazing.


    the views you two are espousing is the fact you two are liking each others moronic posts.

    Hhmm…giving someone thumbs up for posting something in favor of the First Amendment is considered stupid in your world???


    the hyperbolic knee jerks you two are going for is a bit much for me, why dont you two have a nice conversation and build your like counts. At least then you will get your affirmation bias in for the week.

    How about you giving us an opinion of how Father James Gordon giving his so-called “A prayer to open the House session “ squares with “Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion..."



    Or, would you be in favor of a law that states, Official prayers in public schools could start with a rant against abortion and same sex marriage?



    If so would you be in favor of giving those pastors/priest/rabbis…whatever, tax exempt status?
    The haggardness of poverty is everywhere seen contrasted with the sleekness of wealth, the exhorted labor of some compensating for the idleness of others, wretched hovels by the side of stately colonnades, the rags of indigence blended with the ensigns of opulence; in a word, the most useless profusion in the midst of the most urgent wants.Jean-Baptiste Say

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    Re: Kansas House prayer gets political

    Quote Originally Posted by treedancer View Post
    Yet here you are, in a thread that you consider stupid…amazing.





    Hhmm…giving someone thumbs up for posting something in favor of the First Amendment is considered stupid in your world??? Im struck by the irony of you apparently being unable to reconcile a prayer in a public forum and the content of that prayer. In other words its ok if you like the subject matter.





    How about you giving us an opinion of how Father James Gordon giving his so-called “A prayer to open the House session “ squares with “Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion..."
    Or you could say no prayer at all in that forum, which I have no problem with.

    Or, would you be in favor of a law that states, Official prayers in public schools could start with a rant against abortion and same sex marriage?
    That wave, is that a strawman waving at you in the distance because I didnt present this argument.



    If so would you be in favor of giving those pastors/priest/rabbis…whatever, tax exempt status?
    Maybe you havent taken notice and judging by your other hypocritical, hyperbolic rants, you havent, but pontificating political positions from the pulpitt has been going on for a very long time on both sides.

    Maybe the problem with this speech is that you dont agree with it.

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    Re: Kansas House prayer gets political

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    Maybe you havent taken notice and judging by your other hypocritical, hyperbolic rants, you havent, but pontificating political positions from the pulpitt has been going on for a very long time on both sides.

    Maybe the problem with this speech is that you dont agree with it.
    Speaking of “hypocritical, hyperbolic rants “.DUH…maybe you didn’t notice but Father James Gordon wasn’t “pontificating political positions from a pulpit “ but, at the beginning of a Kansas legislature session.

    Not surprising that you would miss this though…them blinders on and all.
    The haggardness of poverty is everywhere seen contrasted with the sleekness of wealth, the exhorted labor of some compensating for the idleness of others, wretched hovels by the side of stately colonnades, the rags of indigence blended with the ensigns of opulence; in a word, the most useless profusion in the midst of the most urgent wants.Jean-Baptiste Say

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    Re: Kansas House prayer gets political

    Quote Originally Posted by treedancer View Post
    Speaking of “hypocritical, hyperbolic rants “.DUH…maybe you didn’t notice but Father James Gordon wasn’t “pontificating political positions from a pulpit “ but, at the beginning of a Kansas legislature session.

    Not surprising that you would miss this though…them blinders on and all.
    Once again they invited him. His sermons are what they are. They are completely able not to invite him back. I would say be more selective or make it clear that prayers are to be non political in nature or spiritual only in nature...but if they do so, I can see religious people feeling constrained because of the venue, especially on ideas such as abortion. Again, I really think the problem you have is that you do not agree with what he said.

    Also again, I have no problem with an absence of a prayer of any sort before a legislative session. Im saying it again because I think you missed it.

    Id agree to disagree with you but you shoved a strawman at me instead of staying on point about this particular instance.

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    Re: Kansas House prayer gets political

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    Once again they invited him. His sermons are what they are. They are completely able not to invite him back. I would say be more selective or make it clear that prayers are to be non political in nature or spiritual only in nature...but if they do so, I can see religious people feeling constrained because of the venue, especially on ideas such as abortion. Again, I really think the problem you have is that you do not agree with what he said.

    Also again, I have no problem with an absence of a prayer of any sort before a legislative session. Im saying it again because I think you missed it.

    Id agree to disagree with you but you shoved a strawman at me instead of staying on point about this particular instance.

    The only strawman in this thread was posted by you, in post# 9, when you got all hot and bothered about a few likes that were passed around…how juvenile.


    As for as Father Gordon being invited by THEY. That’s not quite true. Father Gordon was the guest of Rep. Mike Kiegerl, R-Olathe Ks. Who ask him to lead the daily prayer to open the House session.

    People who are invited to lead the prayer to open the House session are also asked to steer away from political topics .Looks like the good Father had another agenda huh?
    The haggardness of poverty is everywhere seen contrasted with the sleekness of wealth, the exhorted labor of some compensating for the idleness of others, wretched hovels by the side of stately colonnades, the rags of indigence blended with the ensigns of opulence; in a word, the most useless profusion in the midst of the most urgent wants.Jean-Baptiste Say

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    Re: Kansas House prayer gets political

    Then do not invite him back.

    Or, would you be in favor of a law that states, Official prayers in public schools could start with a rant against abortion and same sex marriage
    I did not present this argument. You tried to push that at me, which is the definiton of a strawman.

    I would say this much, Mike Kiegerl is probably suitably embarassed and his next choice will be a good deal less contreversial. Which is what this fight is all about in the first place: controlling religious speech. Eventually people push back, and churches are being pushed right now.

    Im searching and I dont see a strawman from me, but if you think you see one, go ahead and quote it.

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    Re: Kansas House prayer gets political

    QUOTE OpportunityCost

    Then do not invite him back.
    More than likely he wont be back.

    I did not present this argument. You tried to push that at me, which is the definiton of a strawman.
    Hardly a strawman with a question mark at the end of the sentance.


    I would say this much, Mike Kiegerl is probably suitably embarassed and his next choice will be a good deal less contreversial. Which is what this fight is all about in the first place:
    maybe.

    controlling religious speech. Eventually people push back, and churches are being pushed right now.
    An opening prayer turned, into a politica statement by the invitee is hardly "controlling religious speech ".
    Im searching and I dont see a strawman from me, but if you think you see one, go ahead and quote it.

    Evidently you don't know what a strawman is. This is from your post #9

    STAW="Only thing stupider than this thread and the views you two are espousing is the fact you two are liking each others moronic posts. "

    ATTACK ON STRAW
    =The hyperbolic knee jerks you two are going for is a bit much for me, why dont you two have a nice conversation and build your like counts.
    The haggardness of poverty is everywhere seen contrasted with the sleekness of wealth, the exhorted labor of some compensating for the idleness of others, wretched hovels by the side of stately colonnades, the rags of indigence blended with the ensigns of opulence; in a word, the most useless profusion in the midst of the most urgent wants.Jean-Baptiste Say

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    Re: Kansas House prayer gets political

    Quote Originally Posted by treedancer View Post
    Hardly a strawman with a question mark at the end of the sentance.

    An opening prayer turned, into a politica statement by the invitee is hardly "controlling religious speech ".

    Evidently you don't know what a strawman is. This is from your post #9

    STAW="Only thing stupider than this thread and the views you two are espousing is the fact you two are liking each others moronic posts. "

    ATTACK ON STRAW
    =The hyperbolic knee jerks you two are going for is a bit much for me, why dont you two have a nice conversation and build your like counts.
    At no point did I distort your position, I did ridicule it. You, on the other hand, pushed forward a question that distorted my position. You presented the 2nd step of strawman by its exact definition. I just didnt fall for it.

    Suggesting that he self censor is a method of control isnt it?

    Id suggest you stop debating but you havent really started....

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    Re: Kansas House prayer gets political

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    At no point did I distort your position, I did ridicule it. You, on the other hand, pushed forward a question that distorted my position. You presented the 2nd step of strawman by its exact definition. I just didnt fall for it.

    Suggesting that he self censor is a method of control isnt it?

    Id suggest you stop debating but you havent really started....
    You consider self-censoring is a method of control? When Father Gordon was told beforehand, by the person that invited him to say the opening prayer and keep his politics out of it? Amazing.


    I reiterate my opening statement. "This political attack, by Father Gordon, should warrant a look into the church’s tax-exempt status".

    If CHURCHES wants to make political statements like CORP people lets tax them at the CORP rate.
    The haggardness of poverty is everywhere seen contrasted with the sleekness of wealth, the exhorted labor of some compensating for the idleness of others, wretched hovels by the side of stately colonnades, the rags of indigence blended with the ensigns of opulence; in a word, the most useless profusion in the midst of the most urgent wants.Jean-Baptiste Say

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