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Thread: Marines forced to disarm before meeting secdef panetta

  1. #61
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    Re: Marines forced to disarm before meeting secdef panetta

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggen View Post
    Gee, my concern is that the U.S. military remain subordinate to civilian leadership and that they only kill enemies, not women and children. If safety is the primary concern of the U.S. military, maybe they ought to find a new profession.
    The US Marines are not noted for harming women and children. The US Marines are subordinate to SECDEF and the chain of command. This was, IMO, stupid on the leadership to request them to "don't take you gun to town son". What was proved other than their dedication, subordination and willingness to die that day if those in command were wrong. Yea, their safety is primary, for me. These Marines are someones kid, brother/sister, grandchild, husband/wife, they are not disposable toys, they're human beings.

    Again, this was a dumb decision for show alone and proved nothing the the Afghans. Total PR for the current adminstration.
    Last edited by Billy the Kid; 03-15-12 at 09:20 PM.

  2. #62
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    Re: Marines forced to disarm before meeting secdef panetta

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggen View Post
    I have never read a single post of yours that I would categorize as anything other than extreme right wing. And you claim not to be a 'partisan hack'?

    I would say that speaks to your comprehension abilities rather than to his partisanship level.

  3. #63
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    Re: Marines forced to disarm before meeting secdef panetta

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggen View Post
    Good to see you have respect for your officers.
    well, we know now that you have never served a day in uniform

  4. #64
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    Re: Marines forced to disarm before meeting secdef panetta

    I totally understand the objections to this gesture of unarmed marines.

    I really do. But work with me here.


    This was symbolic. Their people came unarmed, our people came unarmed. That set the scene for the purpose of the whole affair.

    Did you know that a Masonic Lodge is the ONLY place a LOT of police officers will enter divested of all metallic objects (ie: guns?) Did you know the entire foundation of our nation was based on the tenets of Freemasonry? There are things than many just do not understand.

    Some things are bigger than what you or I can understand. (Well, maybe you.) Just trust and roll with it.

    Besides, ANY jarhead I ever met can tear your head off and **** down your neck. They don't always need a gun to do what they can do. Semper Fi.
    Last edited by Captain America; 03-15-12 at 09:56 PM.

    It's GREAT to be me. --- "45% liberal/55% conservative"
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  5. #65
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    Re: Marines forced to disarm before meeting secdef panetta

    Quote Originally Posted by EagleAye View Post
    The Marines are doing a damned difficult job, with their lives on the line hourly, for little more than chicken scratch. These guys are running on personal dedication and devotion to a code of honor alone. When someone as important as the SecDef belittles the honor of Marines, for whatever reason, it takes away something intangible that it is vital, absolutely critical to keep our Marines functioning in top form. Whatever the reason is for disarming the Marines, it's a significant blunder of leadership to affront their honor in this way. We cannot toss away the honor of a warrior with a casual "however" and a wave of the hand. Capable leadership would never geld their own best warriors this way.
    Honor isn't that fragile. Nor is this decision dishonorable in anyway.

    And frankly while I understand this is your opinion, I'd tell any Soldier or Marine that they shouldn't feel disrespected. No disrespect was intended, and I think we can be adult enough and unselfish enough to realize the PR concerns that motivated this decision and be mature enough not to be insulted when no insult was given. Do you understand what I'm saying there was no malice for Marines in the Secdef's mind, there's no disrespect for them there, but you've chosen to take it as an insult. Frankly, choose differently.

    I feel like you're contradicting yourself by talking up the conviction and capability of Marines, and then saying something like this will prevent them from acting in top form? Really? Are you serious? Marines aren't that fragile, none of them are having a pity party for their honor nor performing their mission any less well because they put their rifle down that one time. Frankly I couldn't care how good they were at their jobs if something so small could break their capability, so what I'm saying is don't over state this.

    Why can't we say "meh" and move on? It was not to possibly not offend the Afghans, ok fine whatever, who cares? Christ how the hell can I count on my Soldier's minds being focused on the task at hand if their minds are so fragile?

    Personally I think Soldiers and Marines aren't as fragile as you're making them out to be, no one is really that offended by this in any way, and the primary motivation for all this fuss isn't genuine outrage but more like political opportunity.

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    Re: Soldiers asked to disarm during Leon Panetta speech in Afghanistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Maxientius View Post
    You left that part out buddy. It's not unreasonable to strip soldiers of their weapons when not in combat. I'm sure you or anyone else, myself included, can draw any number of equally logical and purely speculated reasons behind the decision, however, this does not change the fact that the only real evidence we have to go on is the statement given. And the reasoning behind their statement is not illogical.

    Furthermore, the enemies to which he was referring are not necessarily a specific entity, but rather, any enemy we may make or face.
    ANY time you ask marines to disarm for a political gathering in theater it is 'unreasonable'. Lets start with...DISARM.

    Meh...I could stand any of the brass visits and dog and pony shows. Even as squadron NCOIC Id rather be checking AC red Xs or ferrying codes than do a meet and greet. Glad no one got killed. Just another day in paradise over there. Pretty sad to think the only real mission direction right now is coming from Kharzai. His 'request' that we pull back to major bases is the best thing that could have happened and we should fully accommodate. We should also tell him to go to hell AFTER kissing our ass if he EVER again issues a condemnation of the many based on the actions of the few. Best thing we could for that ****ing rat is leave the country...let him 'deal' with the Taliban alone.

  7. #67
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    Re: Marines forced to disarm before meeting secdef panetta

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggen View Post
    I have never read a single post of yours that I would categorize as anything other than extreme right wing. And you claim not to be a 'partisan hack'?
    One can be a complete partisian, i.e. absolutely agree with every facet of conservative or liberal ideology, and not be a "hack". A hack parrots the party line, even when what he states as fact is proven false, and continues to parrot it nonetheless. A hack doesn't give a fig about truth, and will knowingly argue a falsehood just because it's a falsehood that makes his party look good or the other party look bad.

    MTP is a partisian. IMO, he is not a hack.

  8. #68
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    Re: Marines forced to disarm before meeting secdef panetta

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggen View Post
    I have never read a single post of yours that I would categorize as anything other than extreme right wing. And you claim not to be a 'partisan hack'?
    Then you haven't read many of my posts. Unlike you, my lean says independent. We know where you stand.
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

  9. #69
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    Re: Marines forced to disarm before meeting secdef panetta

    MTP is a good guy. If you don't already know that, go do your ****ing homework.

    It's GREAT to be me. --- "45% liberal/55% conservative"
    Diplomacy is the art of saying 'nice doggy" until you can find a gun.

  10. #70
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    Re: Marines forced to disarm before meeting secdef panetta

    I haven't read the thread and I don't intent to. No person in the military and no veteran would agree with the dumbassery of telling Marines to disarm to "see" the SecDef. I promise you not more than 10 of those suffering bastards wanted to sit there and listen to the SecDef. They weren't there by choice. And NO ONE wanted to disarm.

    On another thread a month ago I said that no one can **** up a war like a politician. I've seen it first hand. The dumbasses get people killed and the folks back home often don't understand. If you want to make ****ty morale even worse just let Washington **** with the troops. In my opinion they should only assemble officers to listening to visiting dignitaries, they're more closely related.

    Seems Washington doesn't remember Marine guards humping the gates in Beirut with their weapons unloaded - as ordered. To this day it remains hard for me to believe anyone could be that goddamn stupid as to order such a thing ANYWHERE for someone humping a post, let alone in a war zone. For those of you who don't know the rest of the story about 300 Marines, sailors and soldiers died as a result.

    Here we are about 25 years later and the same mindset lives. Amazing.
    Last edited by Risky Thicket; 03-15-12 at 10:43 PM.










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