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Thread: Marines forced to disarm before meeting secdef panetta

  1. #121
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    Re: Marines forced to disarm before meeting secdef panetta

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    I'm not disagreeing with you about Tricare, I'm not taking a stance on whether the raising of fees is right or wrong I was merely correcting you on your original point.

    As for the other two things, its just opinion but personally I think you are being way too sensitive. Especially about the pronunciation, no one can have perfect pronunciation even if they strive for it. Hell I've said "Marine Corpse" a few times because it just slipped out, doesn't mean I disrespect you guys and your fragile fragile egos.
    1 time, its a mistake reading it from a teleprompter. 3 or 4 times? You prove you dont really know the word or what it means. And if you are taking the time to honor someone...shouldnt you do more than read someone elses prepared text?

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    Re: Marines forced to disarm before meeting secdef panetta

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    1 time, its a mistake reading it from a teleprompter. 3 or 4 times? You prove you dont really know the word or what it means. And if you are taking the time to honor someone...shouldnt you do more than read someone elses prepared text?
    Again, reading too much into it and your premise doesn't support your conclusion. Mispronouncing a word a few times is not sufficient evidence that disrespect is intended. As for disrespect being felt, that's entirely on the other person's end, and as we know people can see disrespect in all kinds of things where it wasn't intended. Feeling disrespected when no disrespect was intended is entirely your fault because its your perspective, and no there's no universal "well these people are military therefore the President should know what disrespects us," as I'm happy to point out as a non disrespected military member.

    You're being extremely nit picky, if you think the mistake was made only 3 or 4 times how many thousands of times do you think Obama has done something intended to honor the troops? And you're being contradictory, reading from prepared text by definition reduces mistakes but you don't want him to have a prepared text because it disrespectful to you but that increases the chances of mistakes being made. Mistakes are inevitable, no one will have perfect pronunciation or whatever else, but here you want him to do two contradicting things.

    And since when are prepared texts insulting? When we had a General visit our BN once he read from a prepared text, hell I don't know if anyone there even cared enough to think if they had just been disrespected.

    Hell when I got my commission the 3 star that gave the speech and oath had a prepared speech that lasted 20 minutes. Now what would you have me to? Think to myself "My God I've been in the military for only a few moments now and I'm already dishonored!!" You know personally I prefer to have a more positive and less selfish attitude toward things.
    Last edited by Wiseone; 03-16-12 at 11:29 AM.

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    Re: Marines forced to disarm before meeting secdef panetta

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    Again, reading too much into it and your premise doesn't support your conclusion. Mispronouncing a word a few times is not sufficient evidence that disrespect is intended. As for disrespect being felt, that's entirely on the other person's end, and as we know people can see disrespect in all kinds of things where it wasn't intended. Feeling disrespected when no disrespect was intended is entirely your fault because its your perspective, and no there's no universal "well these people are military therefore the President should know what disrespects us," as I'm happy to point out as a non disrespected military member.

    You're being extremely nit picky, if you think the mistake was made only 3 or 4 times how many thousands of times do you think Obama has done something intended to honor the troops? And you're being contradictory, reading from prepared text by definition reduces mistakes but you don't want him to have a prepared text because it disrespectful to you but that increases the chances of mistakes being made. Mistakes are inevitable, no one will have perfect pronunciation or whatever else, but here you want him to do two contradicting things.

    And since when are prepared texts insulting? When we had a General visit our BN once he read from a prepared text, hell I don't know if anyone there even cared enough to think if they had just been disrespected.

    Hell when I got my commission the 3 star that gave the speech and oath had a prepared speech that lasted 20 minutes. Now what would you have me to? Think to myself "My God I've been in the military for only a few moments now and I'm already dishonored!!" You know personally I prefer to have a more positive and less selfish attitude toward things.
    If I am a professional speech reader (and lets face it...that is Obamas greatest qualification) I am going to hear a word like 'Corpseman' come out of my mouth and immediately go...whoa...did I just say that?) and correct myself. Because I actually know the word. If i dont correct myself on the spot Im going to make sure I say it correctly the next time. And Im personally not making a big deal of it. It was brought up, commented on again, so I tossed in my two pennies. I get that others write speeches for presidents...but when you are at a tribute honoring a serviceman? You REALLy dont think that is worthy of more than, "OK Jean...whats next on todays agenda...is the teleprompter warmed up? Lets bust this thing out...I have a tee time at 3..."

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    Re: Marines forced to disarm before meeting secdef panetta

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    If I am a professional speech reader (and lets face it...that is Obamas greatest qualification) I am going to hear a word like 'Corpseman' come out of my mouth and immediately go...whoa...did I just say that?) and correct myself. Because I actually know the word. If i dont correct myself on the spot Im going to make sure I say it correctly the next time. And Im personally not making a big deal of it. It was brought up, commented on again, so I tossed in my two pennies. I get that others write speeches for presidents...but when you are at a tribute honoring a serviceman? You REALLy dont think that is worthy of more than, "OK Jean...whats next on todays agenda...is the teleprompter warmed up? Lets bust this thing out...I have a tee time at 3..."
    Good then I'm going to stop talking about it because trying to judge the President on the way he says the word "Corpsemen" is just silly.

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    Re: Marines forced to disarm before meeting secdef panetta

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    I'm not disagreeing with you about Tricare, I'm not taking a stance on whether the raising of fees is right or wrong I was merely correcting you on your original point.

    As for the other two things, its just opinion but personally I think you are being way too sensitive. Especially about the pronunciation, no one can have perfect pronunciation even if they strive for it. Hell I've said "Marine Corpse" a few times because it just slipped out, doesn't mean I disrespect you guys and your fragile fragile egos.
    I'm glad you agree with me about Tricare. I think its highway robbery personally.
    I can understand you mispronouncing. You're not speaking in front of a prayer breakfast with a prepared statement. My point about him is this. He puts a lot of work into preparing to speak to foreign dignataries. He puts a lot of effort into speaking to fundraisers. Can't he put that effort into speaking to us? Is it that hard? When you're talking about a guy laying on a gurney, close to death, you don't call him a Corpseman. Also, I will say this and we can halt our debate. If my son had been on that plane and I had requested no pictures only to see Obama posing in photos later, I would have been on every major news network calling the guy out. I just think it is disrespectful. Especially when you consider the precedence President Bush set in regards to the way he treated us. Bush screwed up a lot of stuff, but he got it right in the department.
    Last edited by MarineTpartier; 03-16-12 at 04:01 PM.
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
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    Re: Marines forced to disarm before meeting secdef panetta

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    I'm not disagreeing with you about Tricare, I'm not taking a stance on whether the raising of fees is right or wrong I was merely correcting you on your original point.

    As for the other two things, its just opinion but personally I think you are being way too sensitive. Especially about the pronunciation, no one can have perfect pronunciation even if they strive for it. Hell I've said "Marine Corpse" a few times because it just slipped out, doesn't mean I disrespect you guys and your fragile fragile egos.
    Good debate btw. Thanks for staying civil. And yes, we Marines do have fragile egos. When you have some nut politician proposing our abolishment every 5-8 years, we tend to get overly sensitive lol.
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

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    Re: Marines forced to disarm before meeting secdef panetta

    If the Afghan forces want to have the same right to remain armed in the presence of senior officers and dignitaries, like the Marines do, then they should have to earn it, like the Marines have.
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

  8. #128
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    Re: Marines forced to disarm before meeting secdef panetta

    Quote Originally Posted by Billy the Kid View Post
    Funny how it's OK to cut bennies for the military, but the teachers unions, et al, in states where they are going broke paying union healthcare, is a no go. What's wrong with this picture?
    Please note where I said it was okay to cut healthcare for the military.
    Also, we need to legalize recreational drugs and prostitution.

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    Re: Marines forced to disarm before meeting secdef panetta

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    Okay, a few things we need to get straight.
    Okay.

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    1) We are speaking of politics in very different lights. You are speaking of it in terms of setting policies. That is a correct definition. However, I am speaking of it in terms of the way most of our politicians practice it. The definitions we gave for the way we're viewing the word politics in this debate is the origin of our debate and a rather fruitless one. Essentially, you are talking about futbol and I'm talking about football. Same pronunciation, very different meanings.
    Fair enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    2) I agree with you that the offices I speak of do set policies. The point I am making is the the SECDEF, SecState, etc do not normally engage in the version of politics I am speaking of. The public smears, shots at the other side, shady fund raising, superpacs, etc. Thats what I mean by politicis in the way I am using it.
    Well, you're wrong about that. Cabinet secretaries engage in those things all the time. About the only people in government who don't are members of the civil service.

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    3) Is the SECDEF, or is he not responsible for voicing the concerns of the military? I can answer that for you. Yes, he is. And you know he is. So lets stop arguing over something that you are obviously disagreeing with me about just for the sake of disagreeing. Its a moot point, one that I've proven, one that you have tried to half-heartedly agree with only because you know you're wrong but don't want to cede a point, and one that I am tired of arguing because I can't provide any better proof than posting the guys responsibilities directly for US law. Wait, I did that already.
    And I never said that he wasn't responsible for that.

    What I said was that was not his primary responsibility. He has other responsibilities that may be more important. Such as directing and administrating the military according to the President's wishes. Which demanding these marines to disarm in order to ensure diplomatic relations with the Afghanis may be an example of.
    Also, we need to legalize recreational drugs and prostitution.

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    Re: Marines forced to disarm before meeting secdef panetta

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    You know, I was enjoying intelligent debate with you until I saw this. This is partisan hackery at its finest. Do we really need to go into tax cuts? How many times has the POTUS signed payroll tax cuts? Hasn't he signed off on Bush tax cuts over and over? Last time I checked, the House of Representatives couldn't pass tax cuts on their own. It required the Dem controlled Senate and that guy you are defending so vehemently (and inaccurately) to get them approved. I could get smarmy with you but I won't. I'm not wasting good smack on an obvious partisan hack. And your lean says other. LOL!
    So please point out which taxes the GOP would like to increase in order to pay for healthcare for the military.
    Also, we need to legalize recreational drugs and prostitution.

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