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Thread: CBO: Obamacare to cost $1.76 Trillion over 10 years

  1. #151
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    Re: CBO: Obamacare to cost $1.76 Trillion over 10 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Sorry, unfettered capitalism has never existed.
    Besides the fact, that once again, the government didn't do, what it was supposed to do.
    true, how about poorly controlled?
    There was a time that Wall Street had news reporters on the payroll, paid people to tout their stocks, manipulated the markets, and they did it openly.....the crooks are still there, they are just smarter.
    Some think organized crime is gone, I say it moved to Wall Street....
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    Re: CBO: Obamacare to cost $1.76 Trillion over 10 years

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    true, how about poorly controlled?
    There was a time that Wall Street had news reporters on the payroll, paid people to tout their stocks, manipulated the markets, and they did it openly.....the crooks are still there, they are just smarter.
    Some think organized crime is gone, I say it moved to Wall Street....
    The government didn't do it's job and sometimes, joined in on the violence.
    Paying people to push stocks, could be considered fraud, something they should of investigated, but then again, we still have people like Jim Cramer, who pushes stuff, that may not be the best buy.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  3. #153
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    Re: CBO: Obamacare to cost $1.76 Trillion over 10 years

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    I know some canadians, they like Canadian health care. Your antecdotes happen in the USA as well, often enough to keep many lawyers busy and rich....
    Some things do happen in the US. But usually in socialized government care facilities. See what many people don't understand at all, is that as much as the leftists scream and yell about how awful our care is, we have tons of socialized care. As much as they squeal about the high cost of care, we have tons of free and low-cost government subsidized clinics and doctors throughout all of the US.

    The problem is, they all suck just like socialized care in Canada and other countries. So people avoid them. But that's the problem. They like the service that capitalist hospitals provide, but complain about the cost. But can't stand the low quality of free and low cost health care. Instead of saying "oh maybe socialized care doesn't work" they demand more government health care which sucks.

    As for people in Canada liking the Canada health care system... so what? People in the Soviet Union believed and support the communist economic model, even as the country spun in to oblivion. Hugo Chavez was re-elected with an overwhelming majority of the popular vote, even as Venezuela declines to oblivion now.

    You should read the book, myth of the rational voter. People routinely support bad policies that fail.

    The fact people in Canada support a bad health care system is unsurprising and irrelevant. There was one interview with a lady that needed a knee replacement. She said it was a year wait to see a specialist. And then it was 3 years to get knee surgery. Then she needed the other knee done, and it was 3 more years. When asked she supported the Canadian system. The interviewer told her that in the US it was a 1 week wait for a specialist and month tops for the surgery. She refused to believe it.

    People don't know how much better our system is. They have no idea that they can get the medical services they need immediately. Ignorance leaves them spending 7 years to fix a knee problem that leaves them almost completely immobile.

    And you say "well some like it".... so what? It's a bad system. Doesn't matter how many people like the Soviet Union. It's a bad system. This is why patients went to the courts of Canada and demanded the right to pay for health care. This is why companies exist to allow people to pay for health care outside the country.

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    Re: New CBO health law estimate shows much higher spending past first 10 years

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    as long as we are talking about personal preferences......
    In my world, we take care of our sick before we go halfway around the world and kill people we don't like....
    We do take care of the sick. We do a better job than any other country with government run health care.

    Maybe if Clinton spent less time trying to overhaul health care, and more time killing the people we don't like in the 90s, we wouldn't have had 9/11.

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    Re: CBO: Obamacare to cost $1.76 Trillion over 10 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    The government didn't do it's job and sometimes, joined in on the violence.
    Paying people to push stocks, could be considered fraud, something they should of investigated, but then again, we still have people like Jim Cramer, who pushes stuff, that may not be the best buy.
    Cramer is a fraud.....but so is Wall Street in general...I keep saying, Wall Street is the new face of oganized crime....
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    Re: CBO: Obamacare to cost $1.76 Trillion over 10 years

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    I know some canadians, they like Canadian health care. Your antecdotes happen in the USA as well, often enough to keep many lawyers busy and rich....
    Yes they do until they get a serious illness, and need a specialist. That's when the system comes to a snails pace, and wait times for care are in months, not days.
    Last edited by Born Free; 03-22-12 at 11:27 AM.
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    Re: CBO: Obamacare to cost $1.76 Trillion over 10 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Born Free View Post
    Yes they do until they get a serious illness, and need a specialist. That's when the system comes to a snails pace, and wait times for care are in months, not days.
    For a brief time I was in an HMO, and it sucked....so I signed up for a more expensive plan. OTOH, the HMO is a lot like the VA health care system, where a few of my friends were a long time getting properly diagnosed, BUT once the octors knew what it was, and that it was serious, they pulled all the stops. One friend in particular went thru some hard months before they found and fixed his problem, an infection in his foot that was poisoning his body.
    But another friend had many major illnesss well treated for open heart surgery, renal artery surgery, aortic artery surgery, and cancer where he had chemo, radiation, etc. He was a survivor of the first order, all on VA health care, until the last disease, Pancreatic Cancer. That is a death sentence, but even so, he lasted another year after the diagnosis. He was a tough old bird...and the VA took care of him.
    I have access to VA health care, but use it sparingly. It is convenient for my annual physicals and lab tests, but for my Parkinson's I will stick with a civilian nuerologist, likewise any other potentially serious illnes. The VA is short on in-house specialists....
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    Re: CBO: Obamacare to cost $1.76 Trillion over 10 years

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    For a brief time I was in an HMO, and it sucked....so I signed up for a more expensive plan. OTOH, the HMO is a lot like the VA health care system, where a few of my friends were a long time getting properly diagnosed, BUT once the octors knew what it was, and that it was serious, they pulled all the stops. One friend in particular went thru some hard months before they found and fixed his problem, an infection in his foot that was poisoning his body.
    But another friend had many major illnesss well treated for open heart surgery, renal artery surgery, aortic artery surgery, and cancer where he had chemo, radiation, etc. He was a survivor of the first order, all on VA health care, until the last disease, Pancreatic Cancer. That is a death sentence, but even so, he lasted another year after the diagnosis. He was a tough old bird...and the VA took care of him.
    I have access to VA health care, but use it sparingly. It is convenient for my annual physicals and lab tests, but for my Parkinson's I will stick with a civilian nuerologist, likewise any other potentially serious illnes. The VA is short on in-house specialists....
    Yes, they are. Because specialists cost money, and government doesn't have endless cash to fund gov-care.

    I wonder if your friend would still be alive if he had gone to some place better.

    I will say that one of the issues with government funded anything, is that if you go to a difference place, you can get better or worse care. This because of differences in cost of living.

    If you have $100,000 to treat a patient in New York, that is far less than $100,000 for treating a patient in Utah. Sometimes government facilities in low cost of living areas, do very well.

    But for every good, or at least acceptable story from a VA hospital, I've heard at least twice as many horror stories. One particularly bad story was a doctor that had worked at three different private hospitals, and was kicked out of each one for killing patients and botched surgeries. He finally couldn't get a job in the private pay-for-service hospitals (if for no other reason than that evil profit motive. It turns out dead patients don't pay bills, and that leads to a lack of profit).

    So he went to a hospital that had no profit motive, a VA government hospital. They snapped him up, and he slaughtered (if I remember right) about 7 patients before a nurse contacted the wife of a dead veteran and told her to get a lawyer. If that nurse hadn't tipped off this widow, who knows how many more patients he would have killed before government bureaucrats would have gotten around to checking the doctors record.

    But then, to me, a capitalist, this is what I would expect. If you are not a valued customer... if the hospital gets paid no matter what they do... then you are not a customer anymore. You're a problem. This is why Americans that move to Canada are always shocked by how rude and indifferent staff at gov-care facilities in Canada are. It's because if you don't like it... tough... you can't do jack. It's not like you can deny them money by going to a rival hospital. There is no loss to their pay check if you are unhappy. And the rival hospital is just as indifferent, because it's not a rival. Both get paid whether you are cared for and healed, or if you die. Makes not the slightest difference to them.

    Brian Sinclair, a double amputee, died during a 34-hour wait in the ER of the Health Sciences Centre in 2008 from a treatable bladder infection.
    Winnipeg court says man who died in ER has no case for its lawsuit - Winnipeg Free Press

    How much money did the hospital lose? Zero. And the lawsuit was tossed out. You think the government is going to let this slide? Yeah, actually they will. Because this is government hospital, and they care.

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