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Thread: Israel Asks for Bunker Buster

  1. #31
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    Re: Israel Asks for Bunker Buster

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post

    So far safe enough - at least the Israeli's aren't worried about Pakistan launching missiles into Israel to kill all the joos. Not so with Iran, probably due to geographic proximity, intelligence, and the amount of moronic rhetoric coming from Iran in the past decade. And goose hunt? Nah... that's not it at all. It's a seek and destroy mission. Israel doesn't want to show the world their actions are justified, they could care less what others think is or is not justified. They'll just destroy what they see is a threat to their existence. Much easier; cleaner.
    I agree and that is why the US should not give them to Israel

    Here, we begin to see how the military has encouraged the attitudes and emotional repertoire of its soldiers through a specific sentiment; the feeling of being and of acting Jewish. This reflects one striking feature of the Gdud 50 soldiers’ notion of Ruach Tsahal, namely the fact that the soldiers’ military action is regulated by emotional and experiential constraints, and not by legal boundaries. IDF soldiers are trained in ethical codes; not in international law. According to one IDF official I spoke to this is problematic but nevertheless highly efficient: “Ethics is much more fluid. It is emotional, in a way. But it doesn’t give you firm guidelines. So, even though soldiers know everything about ethics, they still don’t know anything about law. That is, they don’t really know what is wrong and what is right. But that’s okay: international institutions only bring confusion” ("Yitzhak" 07/04/09). The IDF therefore operates in line with recent revisions in military thinking, which suggest that ↑ “concerns of ethics and efficacy are increasingly congruent”, as ethics are internalized through the reorientation process that occurs when recruits turn into soldiers.
    Religion and coming to terms with soldiering in the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) | openDemocracy
    Last edited by alexa; 03-11-12 at 07:00 PM.
    George Monboit "Neoliberalism is inherently incompatible with democracy, as people will always rebel against the austerity and fiscal tyranny it prescribes. Something has to give, and it must be the people. This is the true road to serfdom: disinventing democracy on behalf of the elite."

  2. #32
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    Re: Israel Asks for Bunker Buster

    Quote Originally Posted by alexa View Post
    I agree and that is why the US should not give them to Israel
    Give? No. Israel should purchase.
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Israel Asks for Bunker Buster

    Do we sell bunker busters to...... anyone?

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    Re: Israel Asks for Bunker Buster

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Give? No. Israel should purchase.
    Give, by allow Israel to have possession of. Until Israel does give a damn about International Law and what the International community thinks, America would be very foolish to give Israel those things, as, as has already been mentioned one can never know when one's friend turns into one's enemy, especially one who does not give a damn what anyone thinks. Apart from that it is well known Iran has not even decided to build the things, but keep up the pressure and a bit more bombing and she will. No one seems to want Iran to have bombs. The most likely way to ensure she does not decide to build them is not to make her have to.
    Last edited by alexa; 03-11-12 at 07:22 PM.
    George Monboit "Neoliberalism is inherently incompatible with democracy, as people will always rebel against the austerity and fiscal tyranny it prescribes. Something has to give, and it must be the people. This is the true road to serfdom: disinventing democracy on behalf of the elite."

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    Re: Israel Asks for Bunker Buster

    Quote Originally Posted by alexa View Post
    Give, by allow Israel to have possession of. Until Israel does give a damn about International Law and what the International community thinks, America would be very foolish to give Israel those things, as, as has already been mentioned one can never know when one's friend turns into one's enemy, especially one who does not give a damn what anyone thinks. Apart from that it is well known Iran has not even decided to build the things, but keep up the pressure and a bit more bombing and she will. No one seems to want Iran to have bombs. The most likely way to ensure she does not decide to build them is not to make her have to.
    Give a bunkerbuster basically means free support, the free projectile, the free service and the free logistics to use it. Because they're special.
    And if not those things train them to use and support it themselves.

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    Re: Israel Asks for Bunker Buster

    Quote Originally Posted by MKULTRABOY View Post
    Give a bunkerbuster basically means free support, the free projectile, the free service and the free logistics to use it. Because they're special.
    And if not those things train them to use and support it themselves.
    I am not up on weapons. I take it the bunker buster is a kind of weapon. The ME forum had some Israel apparently had for getting through hard structures. I thought they were the very thing.

    Are you saying that the US provides free weapons and free help in the training and use of? That surely would only happen if it were in the US interest to act in that way and certainly at the moment it is not.
    George Monboit "Neoliberalism is inherently incompatible with democracy, as people will always rebel against the austerity and fiscal tyranny it prescribes. Something has to give, and it must be the people. This is the true road to serfdom: disinventing democracy on behalf of the elite."

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    Re: Israel Asks for Bunker Buster

    This is on Press tv so it may be a lie

    Iran ‘smart concrete’ to protect N-sites from US bunker busters

    As tension escalates between the US and Iran, American officials are increasingly concerned that the use of “smart concrete” may render Iranian nuclear sites impervious to US bunker-buster bombs.


    An article published by Aggravate Research website, which represents Aggravate Industries, stated that due to Iran's geographical situation, the country is under constant threat of earthquakes.

    As a result, the website said, Iranian engineers are very good at developing “ultra-high performance concrete” (UHPC) which is among the toughest and most rigid building materials in the world.

    -snip-

    “Unlike conventional concrete, Iranian concrete is mixed with quartz powder and special fibers - transforming it into high performance concrete that can withstand higher pressure with increased rigidity,” the article stated.

    Due to its combination, the new Iranian-made concrete is an excellent building material with peaceful applications like the construction of safer bridges, dams, tunnels, increasing the strength of sewage pipes, and even absorbing pollution.

    However, the article said, like any dual-use technologies that carry both civilian and military applications, the UHPC can also be used to protect underground facilities from bombardment, which could pose a real headache for military endeavors into Iran.



    PressTV - Iran ?smart concrete? to protect N-sites from US bunker busters
    George Monboit "Neoliberalism is inherently incompatible with democracy, as people will always rebel against the austerity and fiscal tyranny it prescribes. Something has to give, and it must be the people. This is the true road to serfdom: disinventing democracy on behalf of the elite."

  8. #38
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    Re: Israel Asks for Bunker Buster

    Quote Originally Posted by MKULTRABOY View Post
    Do we sell bunker busters to...... anyone?
    To our allies - like the U.K., France, Israel. Yes.
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Israel Asks for Bunker Buster

    Quote Originally Posted by Meathead View Post
    True, but I think Israel is a safe bet as a long-term ally
    I bet people probably said the same thing about numerous other allies the US had.

    especially if Obama gets beaten in November.
    Considering the RINO(Romeny) and the Scumbag(Gingrich) that the GOP is propping up Obama is guaranteed a 2nd term.

    Anyway, far better to fight by proxy and Israel might be willing to take out Iran's weapons in their own self interest.
    If Israel wants to take out Iran's alleged weapon's then let Israel do it themselves.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

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    Re: Israel Asks for Bunker Buster

    Quote Originally Posted by Meathead View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    give them the bunker buster and give iran ONE nuclear weapon

    then let's see if israel engages in a foray into sovereign iranian territory

    we must de-fang israel

    our focus on iranian actions are misdirected. that country has not initiated war with another in 200 years. we cannot say that about israel for 200 weeks
    This is a classic example of "gambler's fallacy", I think we should probably concentrate on re-braining ourselves rather than de-fanging Israel.
    No, it's not. Said fallacy is based upon predicting -- erroneously -- the outcome of a purely chance event (such as flipping a coin). The future actions of a country (or a person) that relate to its actions in the past is not pure chance since humans are involved in determining/initiating those actions.

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