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New GM pickup will have natural gas option

sawyerloggingon said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, I very well may be but don't hybrid vehicles only really work in stop and go traffic? AsI understand it once you are cruising down the road at 60 MPH or better they are just regular gasoline engine vehicles. This is what most pickup trucks do, they are not used for commuting in the city as a rule.
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It depends on the hybrid configuration that different hybrid models use:

"Hybrids are classified by the division of power between sources; both sources may operate in parallel to simultaneously provide acceleration, or they may operate in series with one source exclusively providing the acceleration and the second being used to augment the first's power reserve. The sources can also be used in both series and parallel as needed, the vehicle being primarily driven by one source but the second capable of providing direct additional acceleration if required."

"A full hybrid, sometimes also called a strong hybrid, is a vehicle that can run on just the engine, just the batteries, or a combination of both. The Toyota Prius, Toyota Camry Hybrid, Ford Escape Hybrid/Mercury Mariner Hybrid, Ford Fusion Hybrid/Mercury Milan Hybrid, Kia Optima Hybrid, as well as the General Motors 2-mode hybrid trucks and SUVs, are examples of this type of hybridization as they are able to be propelled on battery power alone. A large, high-capacity battery pack is needed for battery-only operation. These vehicles have a split power path that allows more flexibility in the drivetrain by inter-converting mechanical and electrical power, at some cost in complexity. To balance the forces from each portion, the vehicles use a differential-style linkage between the engine and motor connected to the head end of the transmission."

Hybrid vehicle drivetrain - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
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lizzie said:
Yes, you're right. Hybrids are mostly an advantage if you live in the city, and travel short distances in your routine habits. For someone like me, who drives 90 miles round-trip for work, it would be a waste of money overall.
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Only if the gas savings cost of getting 50 mpg on that 90 mile round trip is if no importance to you.
 
Catawba said:
Only if the gas savings cost of getting 50 mpg on that 90 mile round trip is if no importance to you.
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Currently, I drive a Honda CRV (small suv), which gets 30 mpg on the highway. The most comparable hybrid to size and capacity is the Ford Escort hybrid, which gets 31 mpg highway mileage. My CRV is paid for. Why would I want to go pay 25-30 thousand dollars minimum for a new car, in order to get 1 extra mpg?
 
lizzie said:
Currently, I drive a Honda CRV (small suv), which gets 30 mpg on the highway. The most comparable hybrid to size and capacity is the Ford Escort hybrid, which gets 31 mpg highway mileage. My CRV is paid for. Why would I want to go pay 25-30 thousand dollars minimum for a new car, in order to get 1 extra mpg?
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It wouldn't make sense for you if you just paid off your CRV. But for people with a gas guzzler that need to buy another car, a Prius that gets 50 mpg would provide thousands of dollars worth of gas savings. If they go for one of the new Prius cars, the savings is even greater at 80 mpg.
 
lizzie said:
Probably not many, but oil dependence for gasoline is our single biggest use of petroleum, so it might make a considerable impact on our foreign dependence, which is something I can get fully behind.
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We actualy have enough oil to be independant right now, this very instant.

It's not that we can't be independant, it's that we don't want to be.
 
Jerry said:
We actualy have enough oil to be independant right now, this very instant.

It's not that we can't be independant, it's that we don't want to be.
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No doubt about that, but at least with natural gas, it's not being demonized as the evil that oil is, at least not yet.
 
lizzie said:
No doubt about that, but at least with natural gas, it's not being demonized as the evil that oil is, at least not yet.
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Personally I think a quick fix to fuel consumption is to alter the tariffs to allow diesel fueled cars like they have in Europe. They're far cleaner and more efficient than gas-powered cars, especially with developments in biodiesel.
 
Jerry said:
We actualy have enough oil to be independant right now, this very instant.

It's not that we can't be independant, it's that we don't want to be.
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We haven't had enough affordable oil to be independent since 1971.
 
Catawba said:
It depends on the hybrid configuration that different hybrid models use:

"Hybrids are classified by the division of power between sources; both sources may operate in parallel to simultaneously provide acceleration, or they may operate in series with one source exclusively providing the acceleration and the second being used to augment the first's power reserve. The sources can also be used in both series and parallel as needed, the vehicle being primarily driven by one source but the second capable of providing direct additional acceleration if required."

"A full hybrid, sometimes also called a strong hybrid, is a vehicle that can run on just the engine, just the batteries, or a combination of both. The Toyota Prius, Toyota Camry Hybrid, Ford Escape Hybrid/Mercury Mariner Hybrid, Ford Fusion Hybrid/Mercury Milan Hybrid, Kia Optima Hybrid, as well as the General Motors 2-mode hybrid trucks and SUVs, are examples of this type of hybridization as they are able to be propelled on battery power alone. A large, high-capacity battery pack is needed for battery-only operation. These vehicles have a split power path that allows more flexibility in the drivetrain by inter-converting mechanical and electrical power, at some cost in complexity. To balance the forces from each portion, the vehicles use a differential-style linkage between the engine and motor connected to the head end of the transmission."

Hybrid vehicle drivetrain - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Hybrid and ng wouldn't be mutually exclusive concepts, seems like we could have hybrid vehicles that have ng motors instead of gas, kill two birds with one stone thing.
 
Jerry said:
Personally I think a quick fix to fuel consumption is to alter the tariffs to allow diesel fueled cars like they have in Europe. They're far cleaner and more efficient than gas-powered cars, especially with developments in biodiesel.
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Not sure what you mean. We have diesel fueled cars in the US, they are not outlawed. Are you saying there is a higher US tariff on diesel than on gas powered cars? If so, would you post a link? Thanks.
 
sawyerloggingon said:
Hybrid and ng wouldn't be mutually exclusive concepts, seems like we could have hybrid vehicles that have ng motors instead of gas, kill two birds with one stone thing.
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Go for one if you want. Personally, I think it would be more efficient to burn NG to run electric plants to power more efficient electric cars.
 
This is great news for Danarhea!
 
Catawba said:
Go for one if you want. Personally, I think it would be more efficient to burn NG to run electric plants to power more efficient electric cars.
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It may or may not be more efficient, someone would have to crunch the numbers but until batteries can power a car a reasonable distance, battery power isn't efficient for anything but commuting. Even if you could go 300 miles on a charge you can't recharge batteries to go another 300 miles in 5 minutes, not yet anyway.
 
sawyerloggingon said:
It may or may not be more efficient, someone would have to crunch the numbers but until batteries can power a car a reasonable distance, battery power isn't efficient for anything but commuting. Even if you could go 300 miles on a charge you can't recharge batteries to go another 300 miles in 5 minutes, not yet anyway.
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Someone already has crunched the numbers, electric motors are much more efficient than ICE.

"A BEV operates at roughly 46% efficiency, whereas a CV operates at about 18% efficiency. In other words, approximately 46% of the electrical energy taken from the wall plug to charge EV propulsion batteries is delivered to the drive wheels as useful work. In contrast, only about 18% of the energy dispensed into the fuel tank as liquid motor fuel ends up at the drive wheels of a CV."
Electric and Hybrid Vehicles: A Technology Overview

The Tesla model S will go 300 miles on a charge, and most people in the US don't need a 5 min. recharge, as they drive less than 40 miles per day.
 
ChuckBerry said:
CNG is a great idea if you can afford one of those home refueling units, but they cost $4000, not including installation, and it takes all night to refuel. CNG isn't ready for prime time when it comes to non-fleet uses. Gasoline is still king.
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A CNG equipped station however uses fast-fill and will fill up a tank in the same time as it would take gas or diesel. Granted, an at home system uses time-filling and you'd have to hook it up overnight. Not sure I'd like that too much. It's fast-fill or nothing. I do like the ability for vehicles to take either one. That way, when needed it's gas, when it's convenient or available take CNG. Having options is a good thing, but I wonder how much more that option will cost.
 
Catawba said:
Someone already has crunched the numbers, electric motors are much more efficient than ICE.

"A BEV operates at roughly 46% efficiency, whereas a CV operates at about 18% efficiency. In other words, approximately 46% of the electrical energy taken from the wall plug to charge EV propulsion batteries is delivered to the drive wheels as useful work. In contrast, only about 18% of the energy dispensed into the fuel tank as liquid motor fuel ends up at the drive wheels of a CV."
Electric and Hybrid Vehicles: A Technology Overview

The Tesla model S will go 300 miles on a charge, and most people in the US don't need a 5 min. recharge, as they drive less than 40 miles per day.
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Like I have said before, great commuting vehicles and if I lived in a city and had a two car family one of them would probably be an elec car. I think the fly in the ointment though is you are forced to have two cars as of now because an elec car is only good for commuting although a hybrid would be dual purpose.
 
Ockham said:
A CNG equipped station however uses fast-fill and will fill up a tank in the same time as it would take gas or diesel. Granted, an at home system uses time-filling and you'd have to hook it up overnight. Not sure I'd like that too much. It's fast-fill or nothing. I do like the ability for vehicles to take either one. That way, when needed it's gas, when it's convenient or available take CNG. Having options is a good thing, but I wonder how much more that option will cost.
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i haven't seen the numbers but it can't be as horrendous as the Volt. It would need multi port injectors to handle the two different densities, rings that could handle the variable compressions, and some type of variable compression crank and valve timing. Wouldn't think that would be too bad.
 
LaMidRighter said:
i haven't seen the numbers but it can't be as horrendous as the Volt. It would need multi port injectors to handle the two different densities, rings that could handle the variable compressions, and some type of variable compression crank and valve timing. Wouldn't think that would be too bad.
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I'll be in the market for a new truck in a few years - my 99 Dakota is feeling it's age.
 
sawyerloggingon said:
Like I have said before, great commuting vehicles and if I lived in a city and had a two car family one of them would probably be an elec car. I think the fly in the ointment though is you are forced to have two cars as of now because an elec car is only good for commuting although a hybrid would be dual purpose.
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I know, in your situation, an EV won't work. They are not for everyone. But its not really an issue for most drivers as they travel less than 40 miles a day. Gas prices are already creating hardships for the working class. Within a couple more years, gas is expected to get so expensive, that the working class most reliant on it, are going to take a big financial hit.
 
Another nice things about natural gas....



TORQUE.


And LOTS of it. You think diesel makes torque, you aint seen nothing till you have driven a box truck powered by propane, baby.
 
Jerry said:
We actualy have enough oil to be independant right now, this very instant. It's not that we can't be independant, it's that we don't want to be.
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Jerry said:
Personally I think a quick fix to fuel consumption is to alter the tariffs to allow diesel fueled cars like they have in Europe. They're far cleaner and more efficient than gas-powered cars, especially with developments in biodiesel.
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I don't know who you've been listening to, but I would strongly suggest that you stop :lamo

Regardless of the hyped oil reserves numbers, the U.S. cannot produce enough domestic crude to supply itself independent of imports. This is common knowledge to anyone who has done a modicum of research into the issue (Hannity, Beck, and Limbaugh do not count as research -- to the contrary, in fact).

As to diesel, it burns dirtier than gasoline (particularly with particulate emissions), and biodiesel has less energy content than regular diesel, although thermodynamically diesel is a more efficient internal combustion fuel than gasoline. Again, common knowledge . . . . .

FAME [Fatty-Acid Methyl Ester, perhaps more widely known as biodiesel] has a lower energy content than diesel due to its oxygen content, and as a result, performance and fuel consumption can be affected. It also can have higher levels of NOx emissions, possibly even exceeding the legal limit. [...] The loss in power when using pure biodiesel is 5 to 7%.[29]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_fuel#Synthetic_diesel
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rocket88 said:
That is the problem, but you're trying to put the cart before the horse. Before cars were common, there weren't gas stations all over the place either. The gas stations came after the cars.
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I'm not sure it's an efficient way to go, it's fine in cities to lower pollution. But otherwise, not sure it the best approach.
 
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