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Thread: New GM pickup will have natural gas option

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    Re: New GM pickup will have natural gas option

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Aww not even 1 in my state.

    None here either but 34 states do have at least one. It will make traveling an adventure again just like the old days. (diesel is everywhere)

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    Re: New GM pickup will have natural gas option

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    As to diesel, it burns dirtier than gasoline (particularly with particulate emissions), and biodiesel has less energy content than regular diesel, although thermodynamically diesel is a more efficient internal combustion fuel than gasoline. Again, common knowledge . . . . .
    You can go out to my car right now and run your finger around the end of the exhaust and you get nothing. To say that biodregular diesel has less energy content compared to regular diesel means nothing. It still has more than RUG. I know that those who run a blend say that their mileage improves. Bio has better lubricity than ULSD.

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    Re: New GM pickup will have natural gas option

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    Will this do?

    The large, high-voltage batteries used in plug-in vehicles can be more easily damaged in a crash than traditional car batteries and create more potential to electrically shock occupants and rescuers. The Volt’s 400-pound, T-shaped battery extends under the middle of the car and between the back seats rather than fitting under the hood with the engine of a gas-powered vehicle.

    “Based on the available data, N.H.T.S.A. does not believe the Volt or other electric vehicles are at a greater risk of fire than gasoline-powered vehicles,” the agency said in a statement. “In fact, all vehicles — both electric and gasoline-powered — have some risk of fire in the event of a serious crash.”

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/12/bu...fter-fire.html
    Yes. It is sufficient to debunk your assertion that cars carrying batteries are similar in risk of explosion as cars carrying tanks of compressed flammable gas.

    Propane tank explodes when car hits food truck in TriBeCa | 7online.com

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    Re: New GM pickup will have natural gas option

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    You can go out to my car right now and run your finger around the end of the exhaust and you get nothing. To say that biodregular diesel has less energy content compared to regular diesel means nothing. It still has more than RUG. I know that those who run a blend say that their mileage improves. Bio has better lubricity than ULSD.
    Also depends on what you mean by "dirty". Diesel produces considerably less CO2 and less carbon monoxide per gallon than a comparable gas burner.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: New GM pickup will have natural gas option

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Also depends on what you mean by "dirty". Diesel produces considerably less CO2 and less carbon monoxide per gallon than a comparable gas burner.
    That is what I have heard too, new diesel motors burn cleaner than gasoline

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    Re: New GM pickup will have natural gas option

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry, replying to Karl View Post
    You can go out to my car right now and run your finger around the end of the exhaust and you get nothing.
    I can think of several things that you could run your finger around the end of that would prove exactly as much as what you are trying to infer above.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry, replying to Karl View Post
    To say that biodregular diesel has less energy content compared to regular diesel means nothing.
    So, you deny the functions of the laws of thermodynamics. Interesting.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry, replying to Karl View Post
    I know that those who run a blend say that their mileage improves. [...]
    I now know people who stick their fingers stuck up their exhaust pipes and make similarly unverified and anecdotal claims.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry, replying to Karl View Post
    Bio has better lubricity than ULSD.
    Not in dispute, but I feel uncomfortable discussing lubricity in light of the general thrust of your post.

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    Re: New GM pickup will have natural gas option

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    That is what I have heard too, new diesel motors burn cleaner than gasoline
    diesels produce higher particles which cause smog,gas engines produce less particles and more c02 and carbon monoxide.the reason for that is compression and fuel type.higher compression engines burn fuel more efficiently and produce less carbon dioxide,but produce more particles which causes severe health problems,low compression produces opposite numbers for both.

    natural gas is no different than propane or butane in that it leaves practically no emmissions,thats why fork lifts use one of the three fuels,so people in warehouses dont die of carbon monoxide or from choking.california has used natural gas in their buses for over a decade now with success.how natural gas propane and butane burn so clean is because they all boil at room temperature,causing 100 conversion from liquid to gas for combustion.gasoline only partially evaporates at room temperature and needs heat and compression to vaporize,but it never fully turns to vapor.diesel and other oily fuels need extreme compression to atomize enough to ignite,anywhere from 18-1 to 25-1,whereas gasoline needs 7.5 to one to run 87 octane.


    arguing on whether natural gas will work or not is pointless,because lp gas has been used for decades with success and natural gas is not far from lp gas.infact if i remember correctly hippies used to convert vw vans and beetles to run on emissionless propane in the 60's and 70's.
    “[The metric system is the tool of the Devil! My car gets forty rods to the hogshead, and that’s the way I likes it!” – Abe “Grampa” Simpson”

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    Re: New GM pickup will have natural gas option

    This is hardly new technology. CNG and Propane powered vehicles have been around since at least the 1970s. The US Air Force started a program in the 1980s to use CNG and since then, a large number of their buses and many of their pickups have been CNG (yes, they came from GM then also). However, the explosive potential of CNG vs Diesel or Gasoline would severly limit it's use in combat vehicles. The only real thing that is new is that the factory is installing the system and it will be covered by your warrenty instead of invalidating that warrenty.

    But one problem that may limit the expansion of CNG vehicles is that the natural gas industry is currently under attack by enviromental groups (yes, the ones who want cleaner engines but seem to only accept electric as an alternative). They are concerned with the contamination of ground water from the fluids that are used to hydralically fracture the shale inorder to extract the natural gas. There is currently a big battle between Pennsylvania and the EPA over this right now.

    Problem number two is that BP (yes, that BP) siezed control of large amount of our natrual gas production during the melt-down in 2008. In otherwords, an oil company will have to ramp up production to provide that CNG at a reasonable price but would be cutting it's oil profits by doing so. BP is not the only oil company controlling CNG. So, unless they are going to see equal or greater profits from CNG, we probably will not see it become easily available. While I, as a general rule, do not like government intervention in industry, I am afraid that in this case, the government would have to be the one to force the change. Unfortunately, you have both oil and enviromentalist fighting against it in this case.

    Someone mentioned that we could not get full use out of CNG with gasoline compression. The current limit on compression for gasoline engines is the available octane rating, higher compression needs higher octane, however, the government and enviromentalist have been working hard since the 1960s to reduce the octane ratings. E-85 gasoline should have an octane rating of over 100, however it is blended to keep the octane down. Alchohol has a natural high octane rating which is why it has been used in racing for decades, however it also burns much hotter making it impractical for use in standard motors. We have had the technology to use pure alchohol for a longtime now, however, the cost of those engines are a bit high (or at least thats the claim).

    Someone also mentioned Bio Diesel, sounds good, just one problem, in order to produce that bio diesel we have use or displace food crops. This is also the problem with Ethanol, however they are finding ways around this for Ethanol production. There may be a viable solution out there for Bio Diesel also.

    Overall this is a step that has been needed to be taken for at least 30 years now, but don't expect the enviromentalist or those backed by the oil industry rushing to embrace it anytime soon.

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    Re: New GM pickup will have natural gas option

    Quote Originally Posted by beerftw View Post
    diesels produce higher particles which cause smog,gas engines produce less particles and more c02 and carbon monoxide.the reason for that is compression and fuel type.higher compression engines burn fuel more efficiently and produce less carbon dioxide,but produce more particles which causes severe health problems,low compression produces opposite numbers for both.

    natural gas is no different than propane or butane in that it leaves practically no emmissions,thats why fork lifts use one of the three fuels,so people in warehouses dont die of carbon monoxide or from choking.california has used natural gas in their buses for over a decade now with success.how natural gas propane and butane burn so clean is because they all boil at room temperature,causing 100 conversion from liquid to gas for combustion.gasoline only partially evaporates at room temperature and needs heat and compression to vaporize,but it never fully turns to vapor.diesel and other oily fuels need extreme compression to atomize enough to ignite,anywhere from 18-1 to 25-1,whereas gasoline needs 7.5 to one to run 87 octane.


    arguing on whether natural gas will work or not is pointless,because lp gas has been used for decades with success and natural gas is not far from lp gas.infact if i remember correctly hippies used to convert vw vans and beetles to run on emissionless propane in the 60's and 70's.
    Sounds like another yes vote for ng.

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    Re: New GM pickup will have natural gas option

    Heres another way to go with ng that gets rid of the distribution problem by liquefying it.


    Karen Goldberg trying to make natural gas more accessible fuel option | Energy | EarthSky

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