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Thread: New GM pickup will have natural gas option

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    Re: New GM pickup will have natural gas option

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    I truly apreciate allthe effort being put into new techknowledgy, but from a practical perspective, where am I going to fuel up on natural gas?
    At home...

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    Re: New GM pickup will have natural gas option

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    It appears as GM dumps the volt [....]
    . . . . . . . .

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    Re: New GM pickup will have natural gas option

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator View Post
    This is an alternative for medium and large businesses who have access to the required infrastructure. A great way to increase productivity, but as stated, government subsidy is required to gain fast traction.
    Eh, I don't know if subsidy is the only way, I think you try tax breaks and other incentives first. If that fails then you do a viability study and figure out if a tax subsidy shows a return and if so I have no problems with local and state governments doing it, no federal though.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

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    Re: New GM pickup will have natural gas option

    We would need a strong and focused president to make this happen, someone who would commit to natural gas as the energy of the future or at least a bridge energy source. Obama is sort of for it but the greens are sort of against so I am not hopeful.


    Why Obama Is Wrong About Natural Gas | Jeff Goodell | Politics News | Rolling Stone

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    Re: New GM pickup will have natural gas option

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Eh, I don't know if subsidy is the only way, I think you try tax breaks and other incentives first. If that fails then you do a viability study and figure out if a tax subsidy shows a return and if so I have no problems with local and state governments doing it, no federal though.
    Maybe i should clarify; subsidize the infrastructure to be built. Taxes can be phased in as the requisite for subsidizing the industry begins to dissipate, as a way of making it long term revenue neutral. There is what, 400 NG retailers nation wide? Earlier intervention via federal, state, or local governments (take your pick, it really is trivial) coulda/woulda increased this number rather dramatically.

    Although someone made an obvious observation; 64 million homes are heated with natural gas, meaning they have direct access to local energy providers.
    Last edited by Kushinator; 03-07-12 at 02:01 AM.
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    Re: New GM pickup will have natural gas option

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator View Post
    Maybe i should clarify; subsidize the infrastructure to be built. Taxes can be phased in as the requisite for subsidizing the industry begins to dissipate, as a way of making it long term revenue neutral. There is what, 400 NG retailers nation wide? Earlier intervention via federal, state, or local governments (take your pick, it really is trivial) coulda/woulda increased this number rather dramatically.

    Although someone made an obvious observation; 64 million homes are heated with natural gas, meaning they have direct access to local energy providers.
    The reason I don't believe the federal should lift a finger is that they already do too much that isn't covered in their legal authority. For states and locals they have every right to do this and it's probably not a bad investment. The problem is that if people don't buy the vehicles it's wasted tax dollars so this is why I think tax incentives and other perks should be tried before anything, then take the results from there. For instance if I were the owner of a filling station and my taxes would be signifigantly lower to carry one or two full duty CNG tanks I would be interested, if it took, say 10k per tank to install and minimal maintenance if I got a tax break for 10k or more I would jump on it, sure I may break even or lose a little in year one, but after costs are made up I make a net 10k in tax savings every year and it adds up. As well if it were per tank, or if my demand went up it would make sense to add more capacity.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

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    Re: New GM pickup will have natural gas option

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    The reason I don't believe the federal should lift a finger is that they already do too much that isn't covered in their legal authority. For states and locals they have every right to do this and it's probably not a bad investment. The problem is that if people don't buy the vehicles it's wasted tax dollars so this is why I think tax incentives and other perks should be tried before anything, then take the results from there. For instance if I were the owner of a filling station and my taxes would be signifigantly lower to carry one or two full duty CNG tanks I would be interested, if it took, say 10k per tank to install and minimal maintenance if I got a tax break for 10k or more I would jump on it, sure I may break even or lose a little in year one, but after costs are made up I make a net 10k in tax savings every year and it adds up. As well if it were per tank, or if my demand went up it would make sense to add more capacity.
    You are essentially describing a subsidy. As stated, it makes little difference to me which aspect of government "incentivizes" the private sector into providing a NG infrastructure. The only reason i would lean toward the federal side is due to uniformity, i.e. there is no guarantee state A or B will jump at the chance. The existence of a national infrastructure is key in quickly developing a market for NG vehicles.

    Some tax subsidization on the consumer/demand side would be very helpful as well.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: New GM pickup will have natural gas option

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator View Post
    You are essentially describing a subsidy. As stated, it makes little difference to me which aspect of government "incentivizes" the private sector into providing a NG infrastructure. The only reason i would lean toward the federal side is due to uniformity, i.e. there is no guarantee state A or B will jump at the chance. The existence of a national infrastructure is key in quickly developing a market for NG vehicles.

    Some tax subsidization on the consumer/demand side would be very helpful as well.
    Well if you drive from Idaho to Texas in a NG vehicle......

    I'd hope one could get NG in both states as well as the ones in between.

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    Re: New GM pickup will have natural gas option

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator View Post
    You are essentially describing a subsidy. As stated, it makes little difference to me which aspect of government "incentivizes" the private sector into providing a NG infrastructure. The only reason i would lean toward the federal side is due to uniformity, i.e. there is no guarantee state A or B will jump at the chance. The existence of a national infrastructure is key in quickly developing a market for NG vehicles.

    Some tax subsidization on the consumer/demand side would be very helpful as well.
    Eh. I don't consider incentives to be subsidies for two important reasons: 1) It's not taking out of general funds to directly pay for something. and 2) Even though taxes have to be adjusted from one sector they can be made up in other taxable revenues such as vehicle purchases, it more directly benefits the locality to have more and smaller taxes by a larger body than individual businesses paying large lump sums so basically it would be shifting the tax demand to smaller and more reasonable bites from a larger pool. I don't subscribe to uniformity, while I understand the argument that having supply readily available nationwide is good, we can point to other uniform and centralized national laws that don't fit everyone. I am not ready to further empower the national government in any way.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: New GM pickup will have natural gas option

    Also in competition will be more fuel efficient hybrid pickups:

    Ford and Toyota Partnering Up to Produce Hybrid Trucks




    "If there was any doubt that new fuel regulations would make an immediate and widespread impact on the automotive industry, it evaporated this morning. Today, Ford and Toyota announced an agreement to jointly develop — as equal partners — a new hybrid drivetrain specifically for light trucks and SUVs. This new technology would go on sale by the end of the decade.

    The types of rear-wheel-drive vehicles this will be applied to include some of the most popular vehicles in the country, big pickups like Ford’s F-150 and the Toyota Tundra, along with large body-on-frame SUVs like the Toyota Sequoia and Ford Expedition. Ford and Toyota currently have just a handful of these types of vehicles in their portfolios, but the F-150 accounts for such a huge portion of sales that it alone would warrant this type of development."

    Ford and Toyota Partnering Up to Produce Hybrid Trucks - PickupTrucks.com News
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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