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Thread: Willie Nelson: "Occupy the Food System"

  1. #21
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    Re: Willie Nelson: "Occupy the Food System"

    Quote Originally Posted by Temporal View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Temporal View Post
    That's not why I eat organic food, but you are welcome to your assumptions. If I bite an apple, peach, carrot (with skin), or pear that is non-organic, my throat begins to swell up. My doctors tried telling me that this was a food allergy (which is true in many cases). I got allergy testing and it came up negative for all these things. I always had to skin my fruit, until I tried eating organic fruit with the peel.
    ·
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    If you don't believe in organics then that's your business... but calling me stupid for listening to my own body is sheer presumptive arrogance on your part.
    You have no idea what chemicals were causing this.
    A lot of times our brain tricks our bodies into thinking something is wrong, when it isn't.
    Oh right, the old "mind over matter" placebo effect routine. That's what people say when they are too lazy to find the real reason. I didn't give two ****s about organic food before I had the bad reactions. You can give me a non-organic apple that comes from anywhere. If it has been sprayed with pesticide I will have the same reaction. No, I don't have a scientific laboratory working on my personal behalf to give you a chemical analysis, but don't ****ing tell me that it's all in my head. If I have no idea, then you certainly don't.
    This seems to me like something that cries out for a properly-conducted double-blind test.

    I bet that if Temporal was given examples of “organic” and “non-organic” fruits, without knowing which is which, I bet no correlation would be found between the claimed effect, and the “organic” or “non-organic” fruits.



    A pet peeve of mine is the misuse of the word “organic”. All food is organic. There is no such thing as “non-organic” food, at least not for us humans. Our bodies are not capable of deriving nutrients from any inorganic sources. The distinction between “organic” and “non-organic” foods has nothing whatsoever to do with anything that the word “organic” actually means.
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    Re: Willie Nelson: "Occupy the Food System"

    When I see "organic" I pass it up personally. What that means to me is "Gonna cost more, and the benefit is suspect at best".

    Organic to me is what I grow with my own two hands.
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    Re: Willie Nelson: "Occupy the Food System"

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    This seems to me like something that cries out for a properly-conducted double-blind test.

    I bet that if Temporal was given examples of “organic” and “non-organic” fruits, without knowing which is which, I bet no correlation would be found between the claimed effect, and the “organic” or “non-organic” fruits.
    Such tests have already been done. I am a slow metaboliser of most xenobiotics, while others don't work on me at all. I can even tell you the specific enzyme pathway involved and how mine is one of a few dozen genetic variations that have so far been discovered in humans. This means that for someone like me, toxic chemicals linger in my body for longer than someone who has the normal pathway which means they can accumulate in my body tissues and have faster reactions. I can't even buy most pre-packaged food because I react to the additives, so most of my meals are made from scratch using simple ingredients - hence why my produce must be organic.

    Not that any of this is really your business, but I thought I'd shed some light on a subject that you don't know much about.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    A pet peeve of mine is the misuse of the word “organic”. All food is organic. There is no such thing as “non-organic” food, at least not for us humans. Our bodies are not capable of deriving nutrients from any inorganic sources. The distinction between “organic” and “non-organic” foods has nothing whatsoever to do with anything that the word “organic” actually means.
    Now you're just being semantic. You know full well that THIS use of the term "organic" refers to products that don't contain toxic chemicals or industrial byproducts; or at least, that is how the puritains claim it should be.

    I'm glad you brought up absorbability though. Just because food is absorbable does not mean that everything it is packaged with is. The more additives put into food, the harder your body has to work to purge the wastes vs. simply absorb the pure nutrition. You are correct in that your body cannot absorb the inorganic - so why are we putting so much of it in our food? Why are most products in supermarkets laden with high fructose corn syrup - which is certainly absorbable, but is a de facto poison when glucose is at those levels.

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    Re: Willie Nelson: "Occupy the Food System"

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    When I see "organic" I pass it up personally. What that means to me is "Gonna cost more, and the benefit is suspect at best".

    Organic to me is what I grow with my own two hands.
    I love gardening! It's one of the things I miss most about being back home in the U.S. Urban living stinks for gardening.

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    Re: Willie Nelson: "Occupy the Food System"

    Quote Originally Posted by Temporal View Post
    Now you're just being semantic. You know full well that THIS use of the term "organic" refers to products that don't contain toxic chemicals…
    I wonder if there's any such thing as “organic” tobacco.

    If tobacco is grown and processed according to “organic” methods, it would qualify as “organic”, would it not? And would you deny that this “organic” tobacco would be about as full of toxic chemicals as would be tobacco grown and processed according to the most modern methods?
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    Re: Willie Nelson: "Occupy the Food System"

    Quote Originally Posted by Temporal View Post
    Why are most products in supermarkets laden with high fructose corn syrup - which is certainly absorbable, but is a de facto poison when glucose is at those levels.
    High fructose corn syrup (or HFCS) is one of those things where I just have to be amused at the way “organic” kooks talk about it, as if it is some horrible deadly poison, and part of some deep sinister conspiracy to poison us all and make us fat.

    As it happens, I am a type 2 diabetic, so sugar in any form (although in moderate amounts, is as vital to my life as that of any other human) can be dangerous to me if I take it in excess. But sugar is sugar is sugar is sugar is sugar is sugar is sugar. HFCS is exactly as potentially harmful to me as honey, or maple syrup, or table sugar, or any other form of any digestible sugar.

    As it happens, the widespread high use of HFCS in this country is an artifact of corn subsidies, which artificially reduce the price of corn and corn-derived products, and create an unusual incentive for industry to make as much use as they reasonably can of any products derived from corn. I think that one effect of this is that a lot of processed foods are overly-sweetened, but they are not any more harmful than if they were sweetened to exactly the same degree with other forms of sugar.
    The five great lies of the Left Wrong:
    We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

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    Re: Willie Nelson: "Occupy the Food System"

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    This seems to me like something that cries out for a properly-conducted double-blind test.

    I bet that if Temporal was given examples of “organic” and “non-organic” fruits, without knowing which is which, I bet no correlation would be found between the claimed effect, and the “organic” or “non-organic” fruits.



    A pet peeve of mine is the misuse of the word “organic”. All food is organic. There is no such thing as “non-organic” food, at least not for us humans. Our bodies are not capable of deriving nutrients from any inorganic sources. The distinction between “organic” and “non-organic” foods has nothing whatsoever to do with anything that the word “organic” actually means.
    Mass produced fruit and vegatables do have a different taste then organic fruits and vegatables

    The mass produced ones tend to lack many minerals and nutrients and the soil is drained of them. Only the essential ones to promote growth of the plant are added through fertilizer
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    Re: Willie Nelson: "Occupy the Food System"

    Quote Originally Posted by Temporal View Post
    Well so far you're not doing very well with the latter.
    I've provided links to scientific research.
    Much better than a documentary.

    Quote Originally Posted by Temporal View Post
    Are we eating cyanide? No? Then why make such a flawed comparison?
    You've never eaten an apple?
    Apples contain traces of cyanide.

    Quote Originally Posted by Temporal View Post
    Oh right, the old "mind over matter" placebo effect routine. That's what people say when they are too lazy to find the real reason. I didn't give two ****s about organic food before I had the bad reactions. You can give me a non-organic apple that comes from anywhere. If it has been sprayed with pesticide I will have the same reaction. No, I don't have a scientific laboratory working on my personal behalf to give you a chemical analysis, but don't ****ing tell me that it's all in my head. If I have no idea, then you certainly don't.
    Alrighty then.
    I'm just saying that, the organic pesticides present in your body are in much more significant numbers.
    Why do the plant produced pesticides not cause you the same problems?
    I think your conflating correlation with causation is all.

    It's possible that you're really allergic to those pesticides, but I wouldn't be the farm on it


    Quote Originally Posted by Temporal View Post
    I'm not part of a movement. I just know what I like to eat and what doesn't cause my body to react, so stop white washing me like I'm part of some organic hippy cult. Every industry has pros and cons, gimmicks and realities. Like I mentioned before, if you do your research you'll know what's real and what's not.

    Now you're backtracking and saying that some of it is legit, whereas before you said it's a gimmick. So are you actually acknowledging now that with consumer discernment, it's possible to get a better organic product? Which is - perhaps - what I said I do in the first place?

    Maybe you should ask more questions instead of assuming you have all the answers. Just because something says "organic" on it does not mean I buy it or automatically think it's better. Is that sinking in yet? Or are you going to keep projecting your issues with organic food at me?
    Some of it is legit, crop rotation and getting away from mono culture are legitimate parts of the organic movement.
    It's just the whole, synthetic pesticides are bad thing is without support.

    I haven't projected anything on you, you're just taking this really personal.
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    Re: Willie Nelson: "Occupy the Food System"

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    Well even if that information got out there, I don't think it would make that much of a difference.

    To make it personal for a moment, I don't like high fructose corn syrup. Now I hear all this stuff about how HFCS is just like sugar and it's really okay and all that stuff. But I don't care even if it's true. I'd rather have products sweetened with sugar or not consume those products at all. It's my choice.

    And we can even go the other way with it too. For years we have put warning labels on cigarette packs and have forced tobacco companies to fund programs to help people quit using the products they put out. But people continue to use tobacco, and people will keep starting to use tobacco too.

    And you're right in that those hybrid crops are what feed the majority of the world's population, as well as the use of pesticides. I've worked in the agricultural industry so I know how it works and the expenses involved and how necessary it is to get a crop as bountiful as possible.

    But as long as people can afford to want something else, there's going to be a supplier for that something else. Which is usually the case anyways.

    So, and not to be disrespectful or anything, but I don't see the point on continuing to argue this particular point, especially if most of the people in the thread do agree on this point, which seems to be the case.

    The point of contention seems to be whether or not paying for organic food is stupid. Which, to me, seems like a really ****ing silly thing to argue about.

    But, hey, we all need our vents, so have at it gents.
    I'm for and against both sides of this.
    The organic movement has some pluses and some minuses, same for Monsanto.

    I just really think that the veil should be lift on the stupid crap in the organic movement, just like it has been with Monsanto.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: Willie Nelson: "Occupy the Food System"

    Harry, I love it that you're so confident you're right. But say you are not? I wouldn't be that confident. There's plenty of scientific proof you are not. And what is the price? If those who switch over to organic are wrong, then they are out a few bucks. A much better trade off than your health, don't you think?

    And don't get me started on how modern agriculture has affected our enviroment...
    “No men are anywhere, and I’m allowed to go in, because I’m the owner of the pageant and therefore I’m inspecting it,” Trump said... “‘Is everyone OK’? You know, they’re standing there with no clothes. ‘Is everybody OK?’ And you see these incredible looking women, and so I sort of get away with things like that.”

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