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Thread: Willie Nelson: "Occupy the Food System"

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    Re: Willie Nelson: "Occupy the Food System"

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Nah it's regulated, it's just that regulation tends to breed cronyism and corruption of both the government and the private interests involved.
    Not regulated enough if you ask me. Watch Food Inc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Many plants generate their own pesticides, that are just as dangerous as man made versions.
    Why does it matter?
    Link?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Yes, in some cases, the organic industry is playing to the ignorance of their consumers.
    Then it's the consumer's fault for being ignorant. It's not that difficult to find out which organic produce is real or not, and if the FDA would get off its butt we could have the term "organic" regulated so that people who shop under that label aren't being deceived.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla
    There is lots of evidence to back this up too.
    Around 99.99% of all carcinogenic pesticides that people eat, are all natural.
    Meaning that the plants they eat, created these pesticides.
    Based on what studies? We are surrounded by carcinogens but those same plants also contain antioxidants which fight the very cancerous compounds they might contain. See, the problem with the kind of research you've obviously been reading, is that they extract and concentrate single chemical compounds, inject them into rats at levels that would never normally enter their body via digestion, and then declare that [insert food name] can cause cancer.

    The body is way more dynamic than that, as are the chemical compositions of the plants we eat.

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    Re: Willie Nelson: "Occupy the Food System"

    Quote Originally Posted by Temporal View Post
    Not regulated enough if you ask me. Watch Food Inc.
    Science > than dramatizations of reality.


    Quote Originally Posted by Temporal View Post
    Link?
    JSTOR: An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie


    Quote Originally Posted by Temporal View Post
    Then it's the consumer's fault for being ignorant. It's not that difficult to find out which organic produce is real or not, and if the FDA would get off its butt we could have the term "organic" regulated so that people who shop under that label aren't being deceived.
    It is regulated.
    Also, regulated organic farmers are still allowed to use pesticides.


    Quote Originally Posted by Temporal View Post
    Based on what studies? We are surrounded by carcinogens but those same plants also contain antioxidants which fight the very cancerous compounds they might contain. See, the problem with the kind of research you've obviously been reading, is that they extract and concentrate single chemical compounds, inject them into rats at levels that would never normally enter their body via digestion, and then declare that [insert food name] can cause cancer.

    The body is way more dynamic than that, as are the chemical compositions of the plants we eat.
    That's exactly what they do with synthetic pesticides and that's exactly why people switch to organics.
    It's hilarious stuff.

    More reading....

    Mythbusting 101: Organic Farming > Conventional Agriculture | Science Sushi, Scientific American Blog Network

    The State Of My Ignorance: The Truth About Organic Food
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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    Re: Willie Nelson: "Occupy the Food System"

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    A large part of the organic movement is bound in myth and politics.
    So is a large part of every other business in the world throughout all of time.
    Also, we need to legalize recreational drugs and prostitution.

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    Re: Willie Nelson: "Occupy the Food System"

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Science > than dramatizations of reality.
    Nice dodge.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    My critique is the same as I already mentioned. Their method was to extract these natural pesticides, concentrate them at unnatural levels, and inject them into animals. Of course cancer will occur when that happens. Human diets are diverse and the more different kinds of foods you eat - especially fruits and veggies - the more that you will be protected. Everything you eat, regardless of what it is, has foreign material in it that your body doesn't want. That's what the waste channels are for.

    At least the "pesticides" in plants are naturally occurring, which means our bodies have a biochemical basis for dealing with that. Compare that to petroleum pesticides which have guaranteed toxicity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    It is regulated.
    Also, regulated organic farmers are still allowed to use pesticides.
    Yes I know.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    That's exactly what they do with synthetic pesticides and that's exactly why people switch to organics.
    It's hilarious stuff.
    That's not why I eat organic food, but you are welcome to your assumptions. If I bite an apple, peach, carrot (with skin), or pear that is non-organic, my throat begins to swell up. My doctors tried telling me that this was a food allergy (which is true in many cases). I got allergy testing and it came up negative for all these things. I always had to skin my fruit, until I tried eating organic fruit with the peel.

    There is a difference. If you're relying on studies alone to make that determination for you instead of paying attention to what your body is telling you, then you are not getting the full picture. But maybe your body is not as sensitive as mine and can deal with the various chemicals in food.

    All these do is reveal bad practices in certain organic farming companies. Not all of them are subject to this. Also, to be fair, I am currently living in western Canada where admittedly the organic food is better. California is not too bad though.

    If you don't believe in organics then that's your business... but calling me stupid for listening to my own body is sheer presumptive arrogance on your part.
    Last edited by Temporal; 02-26-12 at 08:48 PM.

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    Re: Willie Nelson: "Occupy the Food System"

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    There is lots of evidence to back this up too.
    Around 99.99% of all carcinogenic pesticides that people eat, are all natural.
    Meaning that the plants they eat, created these pesticides.

    A large part of the organic movement is bound in myth and politics.
    That's all true, but some people are willing to pay the premium price for the label, someone will supply it.

    Certainly not saying that regular farming should be illegal...just that if someone's gonna buy it, someone's gonna sell it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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    Re: Willie Nelson: "Occupy the Food System"

    Quote Originally Posted by Temporal View Post
    Nice dodge.
    Nope.
    Documentaries don't have the solid scientific foundation behind them, like science research papers.


    Quote Originally Posted by Temporal View Post
    My critique is the same as I already mentioned. Their method was to extract these natural pesticides, concentrate them at unnatural levels, and inject them into animals. Of course cancer will occur when that happens. Human diets are diverse and the more different kinds of foods you eat - especially fruits and veggies - the more that you will be protected. Everything you eat, regardless of what it is, has foreign material in it that your body doesn't want. That's what the waste channels are for.

    At least the "pesticides" in plants are naturally occurring, which means our bodies have a biochemical basis for dealing with that. Compare that to petroleum pesticides which have guaranteed toxicity.


    "Naturally occurring" is meaningless.
    Is naturally occurring cyanide, less dangerous than synthetic cyanide?

    Quote Originally Posted by Temporal View Post
    That's not why I eat organic food, but you are welcome to your assumptions. If I bite an apple, peach, carrot (with skin), or pear that is non-organic, my throat begins to swell up. My doctors tried telling me that this was a food allergy (which is true in many cases). I got allergy testing and it came up negative for all these things. I always had to skin my fruit, until I tried eating organic fruit with the peel.

    There is a difference. If you're relying on studies alone to make that determination for you instead of paying attention to what your body is telling you, then you are not getting the full picture. But maybe your body is not as sensitive as mine and can deal with the various chemicals in food.
    You have no idea what chemicals were causing this.
    A lot of times our brain tricks our bodies into thinking something is wrong, when it isn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by Temporal View Post
    All these do is reveal bad practices in certain organic farming companies. Not all of them are subject to this. Also, to be fair, I am currently living in western Canada where admittedly the organic food is better. California is not too bad though.

    If you don't believe in organics then that's your business... but calling me stupid for listening to my own body is sheer presumptive arrogance on your part.
    No, it's not arrogance, it science.
    The organic food movement is largely bound in idiocy.
    Some of it is legit, but a lot of it, is just plain out stupidity.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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    Re: Willie Nelson: "Occupy the Food System"

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    So is a large part of every other business in the world throughout all of time.
    I agree.
    But this is about organic stuff.

    A lot of it is just consumer ignorance.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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    Re: Willie Nelson: "Occupy the Food System"

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    That's all true, but some people are willing to pay the premium price for the label, someone will supply it.

    Certainly not saying that regular farming should be illegal...just that if someone's gonna buy it, someone's gonna sell it.
    No doubt.

    I considered selling "organic" stuff, just to make a premium off of ignorant people.
    Not sure I do that, personal ethics are important to me.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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    Re: Willie Nelson: "Occupy the Food System"

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    I agree.
    But this is about organic stuff.

    A lot of it is just consumer ignorance.
    Well even if that information got out there, I don't think it would make that much of a difference.

    To make it personal for a moment, I don't like high fructose corn syrup. Now I hear all this stuff about how HFCS is just like sugar and it's really okay and all that stuff. But I don't care even if it's true. I'd rather have products sweetened with sugar or not consume those products at all. It's my choice.

    And we can even go the other way with it too. For years we have put warning labels on cigarette packs and have forced tobacco companies to fund programs to help people quit using the products they put out. But people continue to use tobacco, and people will keep starting to use tobacco too.

    And you're right in that those hybrid crops are what feed the majority of the world's population, as well as the use of pesticides. I've worked in the agricultural industry so I know how it works and the expenses involved and how necessary it is to get a crop as bountiful as possible.

    But as long as people can afford to want something else, there's going to be a supplier for that something else. Which is usually the case anyways.

    So, and not to be disrespectful or anything, but I don't see the point on continuing to argue this particular point, especially if most of the people in the thread do agree on this point, which seems to be the case.

    The point of contention seems to be whether or not paying for organic food is stupid. Which, to me, seems like a really ****ing silly thing to argue about.

    But, hey, we all need our vents, so have at it gents.
    Also, we need to legalize recreational drugs and prostitution.

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    Re: Willie Nelson: "Occupy the Food System"

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Nope.
    Documentaries don't have the solid scientific foundation behind them, like science research papers.
    Well so far you're not doing very well with the latter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    "Naturally occurring" is meaningless.
    Is naturally occurring cyanide, less dangerous than synthetic cyanide?
    Are we eating cyanide? No? Then why make such a flawed comparison?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    You have no idea what chemicals were causing this.
    A lot of times our brain tricks our bodies into thinking something is wrong, when it isn't.
    Oh right, the old "mind over matter" placebo effect routine. That's what people say when they are too lazy to find the real reason. I didn't give two ****s about organic food before I had the bad reactions. You can give me a non-organic apple that comes from anywhere. If it has been sprayed with pesticide I will have the same reaction. No, I don't have a scientific laboratory working on my personal behalf to give you a chemical analysis, but don't ****ing tell me that it's all in my head. If I have no idea, then you certainly don't.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    No, it's not arrogance, it science.
    The organic food movement is largely bound in idiocy.
    Some of it is legit, but a lot of it, is just plain out stupidity.
    I'm not part of a movement. I just know what I like to eat and what doesn't cause my body to react, so stop white washing me like I'm part of some organic hippy cult. Every industry has pros and cons, gimmicks and realities. Like I mentioned before, if you do your research you'll know what's real and what's not.

    Now you're backtracking and saying that some of it is legit, whereas before you said it's a gimmick. So are you actually acknowledging now that with consumer discernment, it's possible to get a better organic product? Which is - perhaps - what I said I do in the first place?

    Maybe you should ask more questions instead of assuming you have all the answers. Just because something says "organic" on it does not mean I buy it or automatically think it's better. Is that sinking in yet? Or are you going to keep projecting your issues with organic food at me?

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